Dyche Was Ready Made For The Job?

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by hornetmaster, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Reservist

    Every time I watch Burnley play I think to myself imagine paying to watch that every week, I genuinely don't think I bother watching of Dyche was manager.
     
  2. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Dyche has done a better job at Burnley than anyone who's been at us since, but lol at the idea of him managing our sexy footballers back in 2012
     
  3. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    He’s done a better job in the long term but also got Burnley relegated.

    Who knows what Gracia, Slav, Mazzari, Pearson, Sanninio, even (or especially) Ivic would’ve done given full backing and the ability to fail before they succeed? Imagine what someone like Gracia could’ve done given what he did with us anyway?

    To suggest having just bought Watford, the Pozzos should’ve somehow given a rookie English coach with one season in charge of a football club and already a reputation for dull football unlimited time to succeed is pure and utter fantasy.

    There would’ve literally no basis for it at the time, and any thought of it is built purely on the basis of having the benefit of hindsight.
     
    lutonh8a likes this.
  4. We hate 48

    We hate 48 Reservist

    Has helped make the owners who employed him very rich

    Whether the new owners will give him as much time to generate a return on their initial investment plus what they need to spend on players is another thing

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55495853
     
  5. upload_2020-12-31_10-10-28.jpeg
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  6. If he had stayed we would never have had Zola tika taka, nothing before or since comes as close for enjoyment of football for me except perhaps Gracia’s purple patch.
     
  7. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I would have happily traded that to be a stable club, under stable management, as Burnley are now.

    Don't forget, had Dyche stayed he'd be viewed far differently. Fans would considered him a fantastic success story. Developing from player, to coach, to manager. Sure that Zola season was good, and we had a short spell of attractive football under Silva and Gracia, but that just ended up being a good run of form, nothing more, and it didn't last too long. Let's be honest, even when we were staying in the Premier League, was the football overall that brilliant to watch? Not really, so I don't think sticking with Dyche would have had a major difference on the style of football replacing what we actually did have over the past 8 years.
     
    iamofwfc and WillisWasTheWorst like this.
  8. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    You'd like to think so but be a bit more pressure now they have some money to spend.

    Dyche has liked to play the no money, small squad card when facing the big boys.

    I tell you something he might have got us doing - taking a decent set play!

    Burnley have scored 5/6 of their goals from them this season apparently.

    BTW Dyche would have stayed for as long as the players liked him which probably would have not been very long given the type of player we would have had and the methods he employs.

    He definitely would have banned things like phones..
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  9. For me watching entertaining football is more important than watching boring but successful football. I just switch off the TV / laptop and go and do something else - mountain bike ride, walk the dog on the beach, yomp the moor, stream something on netflix, stick a game on the PS, read a good book... Sure I’ll take a look at the table but that is about the sum total of my engagement with it. I have little interest in watching Dyche football whatever the success or stability. I recognise this is just me and others have a different view....
     
  10. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I think it’s pretty much impossible for teams other than the top few to consistently play ‘brilliant’ football in the PL, simply because they have to be mindful of stopping the opposition to a large extent. Even the teams who are sometimes lauded when the come up, e.g. Sheffield U last season and even Wolves, are not that great all the time. The closest to it I suppose are Leeds at the moment but as we’ve seen their approach inevitably leads to a certain number of heavy defeats, so they’ll probably end up no higher than halfway with their current players.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  11. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Sorry, but you can keep your stability and grinding out results, and I’ll take the chaotic memories of Forestieri, Battochio, Vydra, Angella, and bearded beauties like Cassetti and Munari, tearing teams apart week after glorious week.
     
    WatfordTalk likes this.
  12. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    We should have had "The Dream Team" not just half of it :cool:
     
  13. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Disagree. The vast majority of fans want their team to win first and foremost. If we played boring football, grinding out 1-0 wins every week and won the league by a record margin, people would be delighted by it.

    Football doesn't have to be thrill a minute. A lot of appreciation can be taken from how well your team defend, how effective you are on the counter-attack and the fact you are a winning machine. Ivic's approach would have been enjoyed had we won the majority of matches. We won less than half of our games so this is when the dissatisfaction creeps in.

    Attractive football is great for the neutral. Leeds are a good watch this season, as it means goals at both ends. I'm not too sure many Leeds fans were delighted watching their team lose 6-2 at United the other day.

    Only the elite clubs have a dream of winning attractive football. For the rest of us, it's winning football and the hope it leads to attractive football along the way occasionally.
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  14. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    Different strokes.

    Some people like to wake up in their sterile bed every morning, having had a full night of uninterrupted sleep, ready to tackle their spreadsheets.

    Others like to wake up with a cloudy head, on a Eurostar train headed for Paris because they couldn’t resist the drunken urge for a pain au chocolat.
     
  15. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Try and be as honest as possible and tell us how you would’ve felt the season he got Watford relegated again after promotion?
     
  16. Yes it would. If Ivic were regularly winning games it would have meant we were regularly scoring goals, which would have meant we were regularly attacking, which would have meant we were regularly entertaining.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  17. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Just because they went down doesn't mean that would have been our fate too. Dyche has proven he can control a club very similar to Watford. In fact I consider Watford to be a carbon-copy of Burnley in all but location.

    Watford have better resources than Burnley though, because of our trading links with Udinese (and Granada for a time). We do have a distinct advantage over Burnley in that respect. I would expect Dyche to have done even better at Watford than Burnley because resources at Watford are better and the catchment area more desirable for attracting better players.

    When he was at Watford, I was very impressed how he got the most of of what he had at his disposal, similar to Lewington who achieved something spectacular in keeping Watford in the Championship with probably the worst squad we've had since the mid-seventies. Dyche is a similar type. He is no nonsense and players run through brick walls for him. This is exactly the type of coach we've always needed.
     
    sherwood and iamofwfc like this.
  18. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Except that Vydra would never have made it off the bench and Geijo + Ranegie would've been our strikers
     
    Bwood_Horn likes this.
  19. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    You can’t rewrite history, you’re saying the owners should’ve stuck with Dyche, and that includes relegation.

    The fact we have better resources is questionable, what players has Dyche signed that are even remotely similar to the players the Pozzos would’ve given him? Whose to say he could’ve been a success with players that aren’t players he’s built his success on with Burnley?

    Or are you in fact saying the Pozzos should’ve actually fully backed Dyche and given him the players he wanted, in which case how could you expect an outcome any different to the relegation he had with Burnley, if he just buys the same players with us?

    And if that’s what you’re suggesting, what’s your basis for the Pozzos ripping up their model and giving backing to a rookie British coach with a solitary 11th place finish in English football? Aside from the huge dollop of hindsight you're benefiting from now that is.
     
  20. Diamond

    Diamond Squad Player

    Exactly this. I won't watch Burnley games due to lack of any entertainment.
     
  21. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    The very notion of the Pozzo's keeping Dyche is rewriting history.....because it never happened.

    What happened to Burnley does not exactly transmit to Watford.....how could it? However, the basic principle remains, Dyche has proved to have been extremely successful with a club very similar to Watford. So it would make logical sense to me that Watford would have prospered in a similar way as Burnley have had we kept him.
     
  22. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    A carbon copy apart from the tiny fact that Burnley have won multiple major trophies.
     
  23. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Burnley are not your club, so why would you watch them? If you didn't support Watford would you bother to watch them?

    Watford are just as bland as Burnley in terms of viewing appeal to the casual/neutral supporter.

    Most neutral fans will watch a game involving a top six club, or a club that is currently enjoying a reputation of being involved in entertaining matches, such as Leeds right now.

    Who would bother to watch Brighton v Southampton or West Brom v Newcastle etc for example. Fans who watch those games are basically happy to watch anything or are fans of those particular clubs.
     
  24. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    You think he would’ve prospered under the Pozzo model? Or you think the Pozzos should’ve ripped up their model on the basis of what happened in the future?
     
  25. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    They won FA Cup in 1921 and the old first division in 1921 and 1960. So that's not really multiple major trophies, however, I'm talking about how the club is today. They are a very similar sized club to Watford, with stadium and support.

    There are a lot of these Lancashire clubs who had a great early history, such as Preston and Blackburn, but it's all largely ancient history. Even Bury won the FA Cup twice FFS.
     
  26. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    No, I suspect the Pozzo's would have got rid of him at the first sign of trouble, but they didn't even give him the chance to fail which is my main point. They should have given him a chance, and just maybe, we'd have been extremely successful and avoided all that choppy water and uncertainty.
     
    hornetmaster likes this.
  27. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    You could say exactly the same about any of our managers though, you just don’t have the benefit of hindsight with them.
     
  28. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    Dyche should be applauded for getting the maximum out of his players but I hate his constant moaning at the 4th officials, his teams time wasting and dark arts and his generally negative tactics. He is of the Hughton, Allardyce, Pulis school of management who have all to a certain degree been turned on by fans after a certain time.

    If he stays at Burnley and given funds will be interested to see what type of players he brings in
     
  29. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Given chaos theory and that we live in a multiverse we almost certainly wouldn't have corona in its current form
     
  30. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Well not really, they were all given a chance and were binned off (apart from McKinlay who has never been a head coach/manager since). None have gone on to better things since leaving us, apart from Silva although that was short lived. Gracia is making a fist of it at Valencia, but the rest are not really working at a higher level than when they were at Watford, some are not even in work.

    There is strong evidence that the Pozzo's were wrong to sack Dyche. His body of work tells us this. This doesn't really apply to any of the other coaches we've sacked.
     
  31. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Tbf that was doomed from the start, Valencia are in huge trouble off the pitch and any manager would struggle there.
     
  32. Diamond

    Diamond Squad Player

    I love football. If I happen by a Sunday league match on a Sunday run or bike ride the chances are I'll stop and watch for a while.

    Are you seriously telling me you'll only watch Watford? Might explain your narrow views on the game.
     
  33. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Narrow views??...oh yes...always good to pepper a post with an insult. It's the forum way after all.

    I watch all forms of the game and regularly take in games in different countries, so your intended put down went a bit flat I'm afraid.

    I'm talking about the average fan. Not many fans would choose to watch matches contested between uninspiring sides. That's a fact backed by the viewing figures.
     
  34. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Completely ignores the fact that he got relegated with Burnley again though.

    None of our managers ever even had the chance to be relegated and learn from it. Even progress meant the sack if the playing style wasn’t right. You can’t possibly say what any of our previous managers might have achieved with us given the freedom to be relegated, the freedom to fail, learn from it and rebuild again.

    Burnley are more of an outlier in that they stuck with their manager even after relegation. Hardly any clubs do that, Norwich did it with Farke, Sheffield Utd might do it with Wilder.

    Dyche might not even be that fantastic a coach, he’s just one of the very few that a club has kept faith in after relegation, more often than not it doesn’t happen. Who is to say Bilic might have succeeded with WBA even if they got relegated this season?

    Are you even advocating keeping Dyche, or actually is it more that managers shouldn’t be sacked if they’re relegated and should he given years, rather than months to achieve success?
     
  35. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    I refer you to posts #56, #61, #65.
     

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