Do You Still Have Faith In Gino?

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by folkestone orn, Dec 19, 2020.

?

Well?

  1. Yes

    27 vote(s)
    20.8%
  2. No

    103 vote(s)
    79.2%
  1. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    No no no!

    Gino is a man without a plan. In fact, he hasn't had a plan for 2 years now.

    His time here has run its course.

    I'm tired of having to continually defend Watford and our hiring and firing of managers to my friends. My defending ends today.

    I'm sick of the managerial merry-go-round, I'm sick of the players, I'm sick of the toxic atmosphere, I'm sick of the lack of accountability held towards those responsible for the clubs demise and I'm just sick to death of this club and Pozzo's mismanagement.

    In case that wasn't clear, Pozzo OUT.
     
  2. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Nope. No. Not a bit.

    I’ve been critical since last season and felt they had a lot of work to do to earn any goodwill back. But I never called for them to go.

    I do withhold the right to change my mind on this - but I think it’s time to go. At the very least, he needs to be a more silent owner, and employ a proper footballing hierarchy which doesn’t include Duxbury anymore.

    Too many poor appointments, too many sackings, not enough accountability. Their fingerprints are over too much of it now.
     
    RMT79 likes this.
  3. nascot

    nascot First Team

    Not any more. My support has been wavering but I've come to the end with him and Duxbury. It has been too long with hiring the wrong managers, firing them at the drop of a hat, signing the wrong players, handing out 5 year contracts to crocks. Yes the stadium has been tarted up and they did the right thing with GT, but the goodwill only goes so far when they fail at the primary objective of running a football club.
     
  4. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    The #watfordfc Twitter COGs are turning on him fast.

    Worrying times.
     
  5. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    The Pozzo's model was based on being ahead of the majority of other clubs (with their recruitment techniques). Largely, their recruitment successes were better than many other clubs. But time moves on and others have caught up.
    This technique involves having better football judgement than the opposition. Somehow, for some reason, this judgement seems to have taken a nose dive.
    Could it be connected to the time Papa Pozzo handed over to his son? Gino has the paperwork to show his braininess and the image of a silent, all-powerful boss, but does he have that judgement? Does he understand football, does he understand people?
     
  6. J.B

    J.B First Team

    He's a ******* idiot. He took sole control of the club at the start of the 14/15 season and we have been run like an utter clown show ever since.

    I feel like I say this every time but surely it's time that our fans finally hold him and the rest of the hierarchy to account? They and the toxic atmosphere that their disgraceful way of operating has always been the problem and until they go we will not be taken seriously by any prospective new head coaches or players.
     
    wfcmoog, RMT79 and Jumbolina like this.
  7. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    In an hour and fifteen minutes I will be a year older but will Gino be wiser?
    Lord I hope so.
    He has to learn at some point. He must.
     
  8. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    I think @J.B did a post about the handover and how it coincided with the McKinlay debacle.
     
    J.B likes this.
  9. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Absolutely not. Completely incompetent.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  10. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    A little surprised at how one sided this vote has been.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  11. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    It's been an hour and the new head coach hasn't been appointed yet. I'm beginning to lose the faith.
     
    wfcSinatra likes this.
  12. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Reservist

    What's the alternative?
     
  13. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    He's morphed into one of those rich blokes who knows nothing about football but buys a football club, expecting to spend a couple of million and Bob's your uncle, mid table premier league club.

    What bothers me the most is the transfer policy that ignores whether the player is hungry for success or a bottler / ar$ehole.
     
    wfcmoog and Burnsy like this.
  14. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    He’s been and gone.
     
    wfcmoog and The Recluse like this.
  15. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    I’m not so sure.
    1 or 2 years pay for 4 months work is quite attractive.

    And having ‘Sacked by Watford FC’ on your CV won’t harm future prospects when everyone in the industry knows what a basket case club we are.
     
  16. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    Yes!

    He’s now realised his past 17 mistakes and how his policies are turning the fans against him and affecting his wealth.

    I fully expect to see a solid appointment and a change of attitude in communication and policies going forward.

    WE’RE (still) GOING UP!
    COYH
     
  17. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

    If Reids isnt our next manager I am done with the club while the Ponzos are in charge.
     
  18. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    The ones that remain are primarily those who prefer to scream abuse at people for having a different opinion to then, and then settle back into their comfy chair, smug in their self assessment of their moral superiority as better fans.
     
    Chumlax likes this.
  19. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Have we ever seen this first hand at Watford though? Arguably Richarlison, though he was widely known about before we signed him, we just seemed more willing than others to take a gamble.

    Most of the Pozzo's early success with Watford seems to me to have been due to having a luxury of fringe players at Udinese, who whilst not in first team plans there, were more than good enough for us.

    It was a one off era of Abdi, Vydra, Forestieri, Ighalo etc. Thar carried us to promotion and helped keep us up. It also helped that Deeney played the best 4 or 5 seasons of his career during that promotion period and then following 2 or 3 seasons.

    Since then, most of our signings are poor, most of our decisions around coaches, contracts, tactics etc. Are poor.

    Once the first batch of Pozzo players began to age/be sold, there has been no evidence that they know how to sustainably run Watford FC.

    Look at the squad that took us down. Horribly unbalanced, lacking in firepower and defensive solidity, full of problem footballers who create issues and without any actual guts or emotional investment in our club. That's after hundreds of millions of pounds of trading. That's the end product.

    They got lucky with a perfect storm of players in 2012-15 but can't repeat it.

    Go and look at a recent list of their transfers for us and tell me they have a flipping clue. It's about 8 misses to ever qualified success.
     
    Shakespearo, RMT79 and folkestone orn like this.
  20. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Happy birthday. Something starting with a 3?
     
  21. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Roundabout installed at the gates of London Colney
     
  22. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    We have to remember that the initial influx of Pozzo players in 2012 was huge and there were many failures amongst them. The ones you list were those that had both the required skill and commitment to do well for Watford. I suspect that the success/failure ratio of signings since then has been similar but there have just been fewer of them.
     
    3000, lowerrous and wfc4ever like this.
  23. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    Udinese were pretty much a Champions League team when they took us over and had the squad size that Daddy Pozzo knew they needed for that sort of campaign. When the focus moved to us and Udinese began to sink, we weren't bringing in players of that calibre at all.

    They stripped Granada of any potential stars and mugged them off leaving two piddly little clubs with a bunch of ragtag players. They might sell the odd player every year to desperate higher end sides but nothing of any real note consistently.

    As a result, we have the Abdi/Vydra type signings from a crap team that needed our good ones to keep them midtable this season. Unsurprisingly they are all awful and have all played about 10 competitive games in total.

    The whole project has regressed. All they've really got out of it was an embarrassing day out at Wembley. Great return.

    At least the Udinese fans didn't clap along to every bad decision.
     
    Burnsy and wfcmoog like this.
  24. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Norwich and Bournemouth haven't had that problem though - but then their current squads had and have more talented younger players still hungry for success, while we've failed to replace our has-been old pros over the last couple of years.
     
    RMT79 likes this.
  25. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    I think I've said this before on here, but regardless, it's important to remember that the 'Pozzo model' is a myth, in as much as it is purely something that describes an innovative method of scouting that they pioneered 10-20 years ago; that being a heavy scouting presence in South America in general, and particularly in less glamorous footballing hotbeds.

    At the time, they were the only people doing it, so they uncovered gems from places/teams like Cobreloa (Alexis Sanchez), gave them a platform to show off their skills in Europe and then sold them off for a great profit.

    Nowadays, that model is redundant, because it's much easier to have a worldwide scouting network, and every European club worth their salt has cottoned on to it and operate their own scouting system there. As a result, the Pozzos have been left to trade in random youth hopes and the odd very early spot, a la Joao Pedro or Richarlison, just like everyone else. There's talk of it being ported to Africa, but even that seems a bit misleading/hopeful/pie in the sky.

    In reality, they are no different today to the vast majority of other owners in the way they operate until you get down to the nitty gritty of personal choice, which for them includes a proclivity for young player stockpiling-and-trading like a set of pokemon cards with dwindling returns.
     
    RMT79, We hate 48 and Burnsy like this.
  26. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Even when we were getting relegated, we looked at Norwich as a safe 3 points. Now, how the turn tables.
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  27. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Correct.

    The problems with the side run much deeper than the manager, which is why unless we also have a decent January window I doubt it'll make a huge difference who we bring in as far as our league position come the end of the season.

    When the Pozzos first came in they were as ruthless in shipping out under-performing players and replacing them, as they were with replacing under-performing managers. However, they've failed to revitalise the squad since it clearly peaked/burned itself out at the end of the cup final season.

    Our rise and fall has also coincided largely with Deeney's effectiveness as a player, which is why we'll also never move forward while we're relying on an ineffective 32 year-old who struggles to stay fit yet remains in charge of the dressing room as our talisman.

    I do think the Pozzos have finally woken up to a few of these issues, as indicated by them seemingly trying to flog Deeney in the summer (but perhaps not with enough commitment given that there weren't any takers). It has also been reassuring that they've finally got rid of Giraldi and effectively replaced him with Giaretta, who seems a more knowledgable football man as well as being more demanding.

    The problem is these positive movements have all come 2 years too late, and they now basically have 6 weeks to turn things around and save the situation, to avoid likely ending up with years of Championship drudgery again.

    They're still by far the best owners of the club we've had in my lifetime, and the alternatives can be far worse, but I just have to hope this last year has encouraged them to pull their finger out again and give things the shake up they need.
     
    RMT79 and northernorn like this.
  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Or, Ivic wanted rid of Deeney knowing the issues he could cause, but was overruled by the owner?
     
    folkestone orn likes this.
  29. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    I know we must make a relative pittance commercially, but I wonder how much this aspect has on Deeney's value to GP?
     
  30. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Firstly, this isn't entirely true given the signings of Hughes, Dawson and Wilmot in recent years.

    In fact, our decline as a club has also coincided with us shifting a bit more towards buying homegrown players - Hughes, Dawson, Wilmot, Ngakia, Chalobah, Gray, Welbeck etc.; all homegrown, largely underwhelming.

    That's not to say that they couldn't have done better in signing players from the lower leagues, but more of their most successful signings have been foreign, either from abroad or having fallen out of favour at PL clubs: Abdi, Forestieri, Tozser, Prodl, Behrami, Britos, Doucoure, Capoue, Richarlison, Deulofeu, Ighalo etc. - most of whom were generally better than our UK players in equivalent positions.

    You're probably over-exaggerating a bit the full extent of talent that exists in the lower leagues (Toney was an obvious one, but there really aren't (m)any more of him floating about, however hard I or anyone else may look for it, there are some rare gems, but they're just that, rare).

    It could also in part be that their knowledge of the UK market, and eye for UK players, has not been as good as that of abroad. They brought in Andy Scott in 2017 as the club's UK Football Recruitment Director in 2017 perhaps to help fill that gap, but his appointment seems to have been a big failure in many ways.

    More so than where the players are from though, probably the biggest issue with recruitment has simply been that the club became too complacent with signings in recent years.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2020
  31. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Whilst that’s true, apart from Hughes and Wilmot, all those players listed are your typical Pozzo signings, failed at bigger clubs or with a question mark next to their name. I’m talking about up and coming talent that hasn’t made it, not talent that has already made it and then regressed.

    Even Ngakia is from a premier league club who didn’t rate him, he could come good and could be a good player, but he’s already had one shot at doing so and not done it.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  32. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    By far and away the biggest disappointment for me, is the failure of the owner and his board to meet their objectives they set out in that ill-judged statement.

    ‘Mistakes were made surrounding the team last season’ - but they haven’t learnt as promised. Seems they’ve been taken aback by Ivic’s style and personality...so clearly they didn’t do their homework or due diligence there to realise he was incompatible with our squad.

    That statement still grates massively with me. And it was magnified by Duxbury’s attitude at the virtual fan event.

    The whole lot of them have been utterly asleep at the wheel.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  33. Chumlax

    Chumlax Reservist

    Although this doesn't affect your point one way or the other really, this isn't true; they wanted to keep him, and he chose to leave in search of opportunity/gametime.
     
  34. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Another statement from the club over Deeney:-

    Watford Football Club
    @WatfordFC


    “Nobody at the club is in any doubt over Troy Deeney's high level of professionalism in his work. “Troy is quick to hold his hands up when his conduct has fallen short of the required standard but we are satisfied that was not the case.” (1/2)

    “There will be no hangover from this. We must move on and Troy, as club captain, will play a major role in achieving our aims this season.” (2/2) Chairman & CEO Scott Duxbury
     
  35. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    What on Earth? Did that require a statement? For owners who remain so incognito and can't even c0-ordinate a farewell for a club legend in Mariappa, within 16 hours they've got an official statement clearing Deeney in something not many cared about anyway?

    I've never been more convinced Troy has nudes of Gino, either that or he saved his life at one point.
     
    Jack5, The PozzMan, wfcmoog and 3 others like this.

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