Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Davidmsawyer, Dec 2, 2019.
Liked for 'slow death grind'.
I think if we are to have any hope we need to pick up 2 or 3 points from our next 5 matches. Something to build on
Win all our games we end with 80pts.
--Would be a club record for Watford in the top flight and would almost certainly secure survival and European football at the very least.
Draw all our games we end with 32pts.
--On average unless three other sides are total garbage, we go down.
Lost all our games we end with 8pts.
--Relegation. Another unwanted club record for lowest ever point haul in a Premier League season and general total failure.
Law of averages? We will get a mixture of all three. Which (hopefully) will pull us a bit further up but I fear we may finish 18th -
early season damage is done already. Unless we go on a excellent run (which may start tomorrow night), we have a below average
chance of staying up.
Interesting that you should use the word amateur here. Given that you, me and everybody else on this forum are, by definition, 'keyboard warrior amateurs'. As opposed to professionals who've made some professional mistakes recently which you've provided a reasonably accurate list of. Yet again.
Anyone from a family who've kept their small home town club in the top flight in Italy for how many decades is it now? are more likely, I'd suggest, to dig us out of our current hole than some geezer from Shenley with itchy fingers and too much time on his hands and who, as far as I'm aware, has never been in charge of a small town, PL club fighting above it's weight.
Giraldi should go though.
Not even close mate.
I see your miracle Watford survival act and raise you - Sunderland in 2013/14, Wigan 2011-12, Fulham 2007/08, West Ham 2006/07, Portsmouth 2005/06, Oldham 1992-93, not to mention newly promoted Sheffield United in 1990/91 who didn't win a single of their opening 18 games, picking up a paltry 4 points. Even Leicester's escape in 2014/15 was a greater achievement that it would be if we stayed up, when they were bottom with just 4 wins and 9 games to go. And that's just out of the top of my head...
Sorry, but those calling our possible survival a miracle and/or writing us off already are being pretty hyperbolic.
My goodness that Sheffield United turnaround was amazing! I didn’t remember that but just checked it out on Wikipedia, they won seven on the spin at one point.
to add to the brilliance of it they beat the scum twice that season! In itself we should applaud that.
I've created a venn diagram to explain the situation.
You can quite clearly see which section we're in.
We’re so f***** I can’t be bothered to rant after a match these days.
That tells me all I need to know.
It's simple get Fat Sam in we have a small chance of staying up BFS has never been relegated!
Get anyone else in and we start preparing for the championship next season.
The choice is Ginos .
Where was the safe being hidden?
Not a chance, and even after a bad start I was convinced we would stay up. All focus is on the managerial situation but the issue is a poor quality and low desire squad. I'm sure this afternoon and tomorrow there will be lots of social media posts about how they will 'fight for the final' - and then lose with a whimper as they scuttle down the tunnel like rats.
I suspect 40 points won’t be enough this year, the usual garbage at the bottom of the league are all piling on the points.
Anyone else getting bored and tired of all the positive comments from players and managers after every loss.
Step forward the latest motivational post from Mr Mariappa:
I wonder who's lined up for the post Palace loss positive spin message? Maybe we can get a quote from Doris the tea lady on the quality of the teabags and how she's looking forward to the next cup of tea she makes.
I think we can do it. Pearson in, and a good transfer window I reckon we can turn this around.
Well, a point picked up - but two points dropped. Also, other results have gone against us over the last two games.
But we have new manager! If Pearson does well, and gets us to lower mid-table form, which is where we should be I think, then we still have a 34% chance. Not great, but a chance.
We've put ourselves a long way behind and it will need us to over-perform (or others under-perform) for us to survive.
The good news is, if we go down and West Brom and Leeds go up, the Championship will be full of absolute dross and we will go back up again
It’s not that easy and you know it.
Just ask Stoke, Boro and Huddersfield.
I think people worry unnecessarily about coming back up though. As long as the owners remain interested, and they should because if they don’t get us back up the value of their investment would be slashed so it makes no sense not to, we’ll be fine.
We will lose all our best players for sure, but we will still be left with a better standard of squad than when we got promoted out of the championship. Our baseline of players is a lot better now than it was then. Where the pozzo model really works is the championship as well, it’s obviously a sub standard league, so it’s much easier to provide us with players that are better than the rest of the league to get us out again.
It will be annoying and it will set everything back 5 years, we might not come back at the first time of asking but if we don’t by the third season I’d be shocked.
We're going down but I have no doubt we'll be fine and back up inside 3 years with some important lessons learned.
Better baseline is a moot point...…. in the championship we had an in his prime Deeney with great combination with Vydra, the trickery of Fessi, an injury free Abdi, a pre injury Chaholbah……. what will we have in the championship Dawson, Deeney ...
That’s a fair point, but I think the minimum standard of the players in our squad is a lot better than the minimum standard back then, think of some of the worst players we had back then. Not to mention we'll be able to sign the latest equivalents of Abdi, Fessi, Vydra etc, they were all fantastic championship players but none of them good enough for the premier league, it’s not going to be that hard to find similar players again.
Agreed, what’s that phrase.. if you don’t win you learn. Nobody would choose to be relegated, but if your owners are in it for the long haul (which I think they are, not withstanding a huge bid from elsewhere to buy us) Then this will teach them some invaluable lessons.
And Derby, Forest , Swansea and even worse Sunderland
Or you could ask Newcastle, West Ham, Villa, Man City, Lesta etc
Until its mathematically impossible then there's always a chance. We showed heart yesterday and some pride. More composure in front of goal and it would of been an easy win. Mullins should take massive credit for allowing Sarr in his more comfortable position. He alone has given me a bit of belief. Both fullbacks looked miles better. Yes Zaha skinned Kiko in the second half a few times but he was positive and on the front foot. Masina was lucky not to concede a penalty on Ayew but already has proved he defends better than Holebas. Kabs was fired up and looked the part in general. To be fair everyone put a decent shift in. For those who said Deeney did nothing is beyond me. He worked both the CB'S all game even if he didn't win everything his pressure and presence causes problems. He's the outlet that's been missing. He's the one that drops deeper allowing the runs of GD and Sarr. Plus it was a penalty all day long. Great delivery by Masina too.
Tough opening for Pearson but I think you will see a team swarming all over teams now, flying into tackles and running their bollox off for one another.
I'm looking forward to Saturday.
What was this-there was talk in late 2018 that some media firm in NYC was interested in buying a minority stake but it came to nothing so the talk at the time as to the club being worth hundreds of £m cannot be a benchmark of value
I do agree they are in it for the long term IMHO and also that they should benefit from a period of difficulty as we are experiencing since the semi final win
What I'd find kinda depressing if we got relegated would be the fact that it would indicate that the Pozzos aren't as great at running a mid-sized glamorous club as we and fans of other Pozzo-owned clubs touted them to be.
Yes, all clubs outside the really big ones get relegated after a limited period of time, but compared to even our fellow minnows our record wouldn't be that great.
Wigan - 8 years in top flight, plus FA Cup win against a Man City team not a million miles away from the one that massacred us in May, and AFTER they got relegated, plus League Cup runners-up
Swansea - 7 years plus League Cup win
Crystal Palace - 7 years and counting after previously only managing 4 consecutive seasons at best at the top level, plus FA Cup runners-up
Bournemouth - 5 years and even if they go down with us, they're still guaranteed a higher average league position over that period than us, plus beat us to the Championship title and got promoted after fewer attempts
Apart from Palace, all of those clubs are historically smaller than us and have at least equaled our record. Even Brighton seem to have the set-up to establish them at the top level for a good few years yet.
That's why it's imperative that we stay up, for pride if nothing else (I don't think it would set us back massively and I'm confident we would be back up within a season or two).
There seems to be a new spirit of optimism here at the moment: even going down is being framed as a possible positive.
I'm optimistic we will win a game or two before we are relegated.
Wigan were actually relegated after they won the Cup, weren’t they? That was when the league went on after the Final, I think.
You're right, I thought the Arsenal game that relegated them was before the final, not after. But they went into the final after a demoralizing 3-2 defeat in a winnable home game against Swansea after they took the lead twice, which as good as relegated them. Massive credit to the players for picking themselves up after that and achieving one of the biggest shocks in the history of the FA Cup to lift the trophy just four days later, several of our players could do with that kind of character.
I wasn’t suggesting it’s a positive, but I think I’m right In saying the Pozzos have never been relegated? If we are, as seems likely then they’ll have learned some big lessons from it. It will be **** as and when it happens, but assuming we get back up as I believe we will I think the experience will help us in the long run. Don’t neglect the defence, don’t neglect the attack, take more care in the manager you appoint.
One of our players did: He scored the winner. He only joined us later, of course.
Depressing stat on MOTD that no PL club with 9 points or less from 17 games has ever stayed up. And with our forwards, I can't see us doing it either.