I don’t think anyone is pinning hope on them. I’m certainly not. All I’m saying is they can’t be much worse than what we have. Lukebakio has 11 goals, that’s more goals than any of our strikers have and he is playing for a team that’s on par with the likes of Huddersfield, Everton and Newcastle. Favourites to go down and he is giving them a fighting chance.
Disappointing, but I’m sure we tried to get players in, within budget. We held firm on key players, so no one going out is still a good achievement. We have enough quality to stay up, but my confidence in us qualifying for Europe has gone. That won’t happen with the squad we have. It’s close, but needed that little boost of a couple of new signings.
Two Premier League deal sheets in, one is Palace and the other is currently unknown. I'd imagine either Fulham or Cardiff but there's still a glimmer of hope...
Any one who doesn't like is welcome to FRO to a team that better reflects their ambitions. Give me the Pozzos over Moshiri every time.
No idea why we’re finishing the window with Mariappa as a first choice centre back but I trust in Gino. COYH.
I like our quietness in January. It's very calming and peaceful where everyone else is losing their heads for deals. Makes you think we're in a good place and creates an air of control to both the team and people looking in. I enjoy everyone else scrambling around.
The fact that no-one in Prem really strengthened their team is very telling. You would think with that being the case we weren’t the only club being quoted ridiculous prices. We are in a great place as a club when you look at it from a different angle: Dahlberg (20) Masina (25) Femenia (27) Navarro (23) Chalobah (24) Hughes (23) Doucoure (26) will most likely go in the summer Quina (19) Success (23) Deulofeu (24) Peñaranda (21) Stuparevic (18) Wilmot (19) Foulquier (25) beginning to show promise in La Liga Lukebakio (20) Cucho (19) All of them playing top flight football bar Stuparevic, and yet to have hit their prime. Add to that list some of the others that we probably have laying around somewhere and in the next few years we are going to have a very young experienced team, if we manage to keep them. All of these guys getting a solid pre season under their belts and who knows what next season will look like. For the future though; Dahlberg Navarro, Wilmot, ?, Masina Hughes, Quina, Chalobah Deulofeu, Lukebakio, Peñaranda Still with Cucho, Stuparevic, Foulquier (maybe), Success and probably some of our other youngsters we have on the books. That line up, with a couple years under their belts, adding some maturity to their game, and a couple of additions, I would say that will be better than the team we have now. The Pozzo’s aren’t stupid, they know we need a couple solid CB’s but they would never put the club at risk in order to get them. I for one appreciate that more than the signings. At least we know we are in good hands. Who knows the longer we stay an established Prem League Club, someone with deeper pockets might make an offer. Great club, great facilities, great pitch, great location, tidy stadium with a little room to expand. The Pozzo’s have and continue, to set us up for success in the future. Let’s just enjoy the rest of the season, safe in the knowledge that relegation is a distant reality, but Europe and the FA Cup could be coming to Vicarage Road.
Good post. I'm sure the pozzos want cup success and European football, but while we want it here and now, they're probably much more prepared to bide their time and build slowly.
Batshuayi is a good deal for us. Its just a loan, no option to buy. We don't play them with him, Palace won't catch us, but they might beat a few of the teams around us. Or he's really poor and Palace get relegated!
A bit disappointed we didnt get anyone in but it is hard to buy in the Jan window and get value for money. Hopefully we can have just as good a second half of the season as we did the first half.
I'd like to follow on from this post. The Pozzo's have done a remarkable job in raising the profile of Watford as a club. In the modern age, with modest means, I wouldn't have thought it possible. The long term future is secure, or looks about as secure as you could possibly have it. As a club of our size and modest means, we have to be clever. We cannot have to short term gratification approach. We'd come unstuck very quickly if we allowed ourselves to do that. If we want a good striker, then we have to develop our own. We cannot afford to sign the likes of Batshuyai as Palace have done, nor should we. It's clear what our strategy is. We sign the likes of Hernandez, Pedro & Stuparevic and hope they develop into future stars. It worked very well with Richarlison, but the flip side is because they are such a sort after commodity it's hard to retain players like these. Seeing as our strategy is also to sign players on long contracts, we do have the upper hand when it comes to selling these players so can demand a good selling price. I get as frustrated as the next fan, when I see obvious areas of the team not strengthened. Sometimes I think we should bite the bullet and get someone of quality in, even if it's a little bit more expensive than we would like. For example, had we signed a couple of players like Kabak and Cornet, I think we'd be looking at a 7th place finish this season. That brings it's own reward with financial benefits from a high league placement. However, it's all a juggling act and it's not my money after all, so it's easy to be critical. Financially we've done extremely well in both the summer transfer window and this one. We've made a big profit, which is relatively unheard of. It's ok to be disappointed and feeling a little deflated this morning. It's unlikely we will maintain a top half finish now, IMO, although we do have a good run of home fixtures (when we actually managed to play at home) so I'm pinning all my hopes on picking up points in those games. Seeing as from 7th to 12th is so congested, I think it's likely we will finish around 12th this season, but that's still an improvement on previous seasons. There is still the FA Cup to look forward to though, and I see no reason why we cannot go a long way in that competition.
You joke but if the summer consists of selling Doucoure and buying cheap tat like Navarro and Sema then it would be a fair question.
I see Wague went on loan to Forest late on, getting the band back together with Pants, Gueds and Ginge if they are all still there. Forest are the new Wednesday.
Not really a fair question though is it. Since the Pozzo's have taken over they have invested far more into the playing squad then any other owner in our history. It's very easy to see we've spent far more in buying players then we have in selling. By my calculations, we are probably somewhere around £100m down on net trading over the period of their ownership, and that's including the sale of Richarlison. Books do need balancing at some point. Here's a guideline to showing are trading record. Ok, it's not 100% accurate, and some of our deals were between Watford and Udinese, which is in effect the same wallet, but it's obvious a lot of money has already been pumped into the club to get us where we are today. https://www.transfermarkt.com/fc-watford/transfers/verein/1010/saison_id/2017
Whilst it’s disappointing we didn’t get anyone in, I do like the fact that it’s another step towards being a stable club. Stable manager, stable results, stable squad. And we’ve finally been able to offload some of the deadwood to free up space for some summer activity. But that’s a fair few windows without so much as bothering with upgrading ourselves at CB. I do think we are at the limit now for how long that can continue. I will be extremely disappointed if we don’t do some serious business in that position over the summer. I think Gracia is already operating with one arm tied behind his back in that regard and another window of neglect will be tying the other arm there too.
Yes. But balance that against 5 years of TV income and prize money (less wages of course). If we were to generate another 40m surplus in the summer. Then over 5 seasons net 60m expenditure with a (relatively) low wage bill would make it a fair question in my view. I know Pozzo walks on water for most of here but let’s see what the summer brings. If Marriappa is first team regular next season others may change their opinion.
If we sell Doucoure, but start next season with Deeney as our best striker and Mariappa as first teamer, then I'm getting the Supporters Trust back together.
Palace generated more income than us in our second season ended June 17 so they could pay out more in wages but like us they made a loss before player trading made it profitable. I have no idea what is included in operating expenses-i can see from the accounts c £3m in depreciation of the ground/facilities and spending on the youth academy and maybe London Colney but as for the rest its not obvious what else-hospitality costs and agents fees are a guess but its not a) wages b) nor the amortisation charge on players costs c) nor money to entities related to Gino as these have to be disclosed. Its high compared to Palace but both are over £20m so its not out of the ordinary £m CPAL WFC Gate income 11 7 TV 117 110 Other 14 7 Total 142 124 Costs Wages 111 76 Amort 33 30 Other 21 29 Total 165 135 Fine 0 4 Profit/loss -23 -15 Trading 35 22 The accounts for us for last season ended June 18 will be out in a month or so and it will be interesting as there were next to no player sales. The Richarlison sale was in the current financial year to June 19 and again without any other sales the profit (assuming a sale at £40m) will be c £20/25m after deduction of the cost and sell on fee to Fluminese. Based on 2017 we have needed £20m +in profits on player sales to make an overall profit
Great post. If we need 20m transfer profit to break even each year is all the TV money going in player wages? How much is interest? If lots is going in interest then do we know who is the owner of the debt and the rate being charged?
TV money £110m plus gate and commercial income=£124m less wages £76m (players £62m) and these £30m operating expenses and then the required amortising of the transfer fees paid for players £30m. Result a loss of £15m (as we also had to pay a £4m fine) All these costs exclude interest of £3.5m on our debt the bulk of which is a £40m loan from XXIII Capital with interest charged at LIBOR+6%. Remember also that £40m debt was increased by £15m after 30/6/17-presumably to help pay for Richarlison, Gray, Cleverly, Chalobah, Hughes-all in about £64m spent when you include Zeeglar, Lukbackinangerago +Dahlberg In addition to the £55m loan from XXIII Capital a further £20m short term loan was taken out after the year end-no details given. See thread on 23 Capital http://wfcforums.com/index.php?threads/23-capital.55350/#post-2703081
Remember that deadline day in the Prem when Boothroyd was in charge? I think we signed something like 6 players while playing United away. Weren't we just holding open tryouts and picking up anybody who looked vaguely worth looking at? Cedric Avinel Johan Cavalli Douglas Rinaldi Will Hoskins Liam Williamson That's who I can recall. Were there others? What a load of ***** they were, except perhaps Williamson who was serviceable for a couple of years. Though I seem to remember Cavalli having an absolute stormer away at West Ham when Hendo scored. As much as I can appreciate the more focused recruitment that we've employed recently, I do miss the days of scattergun policy and those glory days spent wondering and dreaming about which of the 14 new players will turn out to be decent, getting hyped on YouTube videos showing a few mazy dribbles and shots screwed wide of the target. Did we even have a YouTube video worthy rumor this window?