Cucho/suarez Sema/estupiñan

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Moosegasm, Nov 9, 2020.

  1. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    Currently on Cucho (who we kept) is rated as Getafe's 2nd best player on 6.88, Suarez is rated as Granada's 18th best player on 6.27. Sema is rated as our 4th best player (behind Caps, Sarr and JP) on 6.89, Estupiñan is rated as Villareal's 14th best player on 6.44. Kept Cucho and Sema made over £20m on Suarez and Estupiñan. Looks like pretty good business to me!
    BigRossLittleRoss likes this.
  2. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I'm sure this all means something
    King Dev, Chewitt, NathWFC and 3 others like this.
  3. Yes, all in all it looks like a fantastic transfer window. I always said that Cucho was a better player than Suarez by at least 0.61.
  4. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Don’t forget Doucoure, though. Despite stinking the place out for 18 months, apparently we lost out on an extra £15m for not having the foresight to charge Everton for the three good games he had at the start of the season.
    W4BS and Moosegasm like this.
  5. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Some caveats you have to consider when looking at Estupinan and Suarez's whoscored ratings - they've both made half of their appearances as subs, and this will always automatically drag the overall rating down as it's more difficult to earn a higher rating as a sub. Meanwhile, all Cucho's appearances have been as a starter.

    Having said that, it is telling to note that Estupinan appears to be increasingly out of favour at the moment, having started none of their last 7 La Liga and Europa League games and with only 3 starts overall. His average rating as a starter is at a mediocre 6.56.

    Suarez has only started 4 matches for Granada, but he has started their last 2 games now so he could be working his way in to the side. Also, only 2 of his starts have actually been in his preferred position of CF, and in those his average rating was 6.85 and he got one goal (away at Nicosia in the EL).

    Another thing, Estupinan and Suarez are both trying to get in to the teams of clubs higher in the table than the one Cucho is at - Villareal are 2nd, Granada 5th, and Getafe 10th.

    I was always a bit unsure about Estupinan, some of his play (especially his crossing) can be overly erratic. Suarez is still a player we could have done with though I reckon, and at the moment it seems more likely he'll work his way in to his team than Estupinan.

    Cucho does seem to have made a good start this season, but he plays in a position in which we have less need than the LB and CF positions of Estupinan and Suarez - he'd likely be competing with Delboy and Joao Pedro for the same spot.

    Surely "good business" would be to ideally keep the players in the positions you need, and sell the ones in the positions you are already well covered for, in which case we have done the reverse and so your conclusion does not seem justified (not that we could have held on to Suarez anyway).
    wfcmoog likes this.
  6. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    I was stimulated by this to go to that website. It took me about 10 seconds to turn it off again.
    I'd love to see someone run those figures past Neil Warnock. Or, going back a bit, Bob Paisley or Brian Clough.
    Also loved that wiggly thing above the n in Estupinan.
  7. WatfordTalk

    WatfordTalk First Team

    Believe he only started last match as almost all of Granada's squad were isolating
    lowerrous likes this.
  8. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    I never really expected Estupinan to stay, so I understood him leaving, but Jesus I never expected we'd a) lose Masina for so long (for good perhaps?), and b) not sign anyone to replace him. Sema is amazing, but a full-back he is not, there's a difference between LWB and LB

    We have decent enough striking options now that everyone is coming back to fitness, so I was fine with the wantaway Suarez leaving (even if the fee was on the low side). I really would have thought we'd be able to get Cucho a work permit by now, he's a full international who's played in La Liga for a while, and it'll only get harder once Brexit kicks in. Of course, if he arrives, he might have plenty of competition down that left wing, unless he is played as a striker where he appears competent but not as natural as LW (probably all academic anyway as he Will. Never. Play. For. Us)
  9. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Basically seems to me these guys aren’t getting the game time they might have got with us because they have have gone to better teams in a better league.

    Maybe they aren’t the world beaters some thought just yet (clearly over time that might happen ) but could have done a job for us.
  10. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    He was injured on international duty hence why he's been out of the team. Just getting back to fitness now.
  11. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Didn't know that, though it appears Pedraza was still starting more games than him even before his brief injury.
  12. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    It has been reported before that it's expected he'll have a Spanish passport in time for January. I doubt he'll come to us then though when we're in the Champ and he's playing regularly in La Liga. He'd be able to join us in the summer though if we get promoted, have space in the team for him, and he's fine with the move.
  13. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    No idea what this is based on.

    Estupinan's first game was as a sub in which he replaced Pedraza.

    Pedraza was then injured for the next 3 games, in which Estupinan started. Then Estupinan got injured.

    Unless you're talking about Pedraza starting games when Estupinan wasn't at the club, then your point isn't really valid.
  14. Lloyd

    Lloyd Reservist

    Could you explain what it is, please?
  15. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    I mean we *could* decide we want him back, and he *could* be willing (he's certainly seemed more eager to play for us than Suarez in the past), but will a Spanish passport be of any use in January once the Brexit transition period is up? Luckily it looks like he's not *absolutely* necessary with JP and Sema able to do a job on the left and numerous centre forward options, though it would be annoying if he slips through the cracks
  16. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    How much defending has King Ken done this season? Remember Kiko last season getting caught out of position time and time again? That could be Sema if he's played as a full-back
  17. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Hughes is our 22nd best player according to WhoScored.

    Should've sold him. Thats how this works right? After all, games are played on the website.
  18. Lloyd

    Lloyd Reservist

    So you're saying the difference between a 'LB' and 'LWB' is that a LB is more defence minded while a LWB is more attack minded?
  19. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    And to think people were saying that we should get as much for Suraez as Oli Watkins, because he had banged some goals in the equivalent of League 1 of Spain.
  20. jackwfc

    jackwfc Academy Graduate

    I don’t really understand why we can’t get Cucho a work permit, but work permit wise we could’ve kept suarez and estupinan without a problem
  21. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Suarez and Pervis got Spanish passports already, Cucho's has taken a bit longer. That's it.
  22. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    You'd rather have Estupiñan who had no intention of staying at the club at LWB instead of King Ken!?!??! Or wantaway Suarez playing instead of JP?? We have 5 centre forwards in the squad right now. We lost 2 players who havent performed well in la liga this season and didnt want to be at the club, kept 1 who has performed well and also King Ken. Sounds good to me!!
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  23. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    Its based on his performance this season. He will no doubt be nearer the top if he gets back to form..... duh
  24. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Not least because it's extremely difficult to get high marks when you're only on the pitch for about 10 minutes!
    CaveManHornet and Moosegasm like this.
  25. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    But you’re basing your opinion on Suarez on him not playing much either? Can’t work one way and not the other. Surely it only becomes a fair comparison when all players have played a decent cross-section of games.

    You also make an allowance in your reply there for Hughes ‘getting back to form’ - but don’t think it possible that Estupinan and/or Suarez can’t get back to form?

    So no, not ‘duh’.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
    Jumbolina likes this.
  26. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Currently waiting for my kids Irish passport to come through (born in England but I’m from Belfast) - we applied for it back in April and it’s still not come through. If Spanish authorities are in a similar space to other nations when it comes to passports and applications, not at all surprised he hasn’t got his yet, even if he is eligible.

    That said, wouldn’t be shocked if he also said he didn’t want to play in the Championship.
  27. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Reservist

    Estupinan is a left back? What's one of those?
  28. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Please point me to where I said I'd rather have Estupinan at LWB than Sema? Lol.

    I also pointed out "not that we could have held on to Suarez anyway".

    Stylistically, hypothetically Suarez is still a kind of sharp striker we're missing though.
  29. lowerrous

    lowerrous Squad Player

    Did I say anything which indicated to the contrary?

    That's shambolic.
  30. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I wasn’t claiming you did! Was merely making a comment. No need to be so defensive!
  31. Since63

    Since63 Reservist

    That’s the problem....all wing backs & no full backs. Not being defensive enough!
  32. reids

    reids Squad Player

    Only 1 player in La Liga (Jesus Navas) completed more crosses last season.
    Burnsy and Timbers like this.
  33. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Oh dear.
    Burnsy and Cassetti's Beard like this.
  34. Chewitt

    Chewitt Forum Extraordinaire

    That website seems as useful as the “expected goals” stat.
    Burnsy likes this.
  35. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Jesus? Crosses?

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