Cricket...

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by wfc4ever, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

    Come on Hampshire. Send the AFC Bournemouth of the County Championship down.
     
  2. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    From the high of being Champions to the low of potential relegation for Middlesex?
     
  3. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Or in other words: a right royal mess up!
     
  4. oxhey67

    oxhey67 Reservist

    Just got in and checked the scores...

    From Toby Roland-Jones taking a hat-trick to claim the title last season to this. Very sad.
     
  5. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Angus Fraser's job in doubt perhaps?
     
  6. oxhey67

    oxhey67 Reservist

    I hope not. Had the 2 points deducted earlier in the season (I can't remember what for now!) not happened Somerset would have gone down and we were only 2pts behind Yorkshire in 4th place. Very fine margins as opposed to unmitigated disaster. Still gutted though.
     
  7. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    I forgot about those points.
    Oh well,every team finds its level.Here's to a better 2018.
     
    oxhey67 likes this.
  8. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    eh? Explain

    The two points deduction screwed us, but ultimately we were not good enough this season, and our batting was woeful. We got what we deserved tbh, from heroes to zeroes!
     
  9. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

    1. Middlesex cheated Somerset out of their first County Championship last year by conniving with Yorkshire, using joke bowlers to facilitate a declaration on the final afternoon, and then agreeing that Yorkshire should not play for a draw when chasing the target;
    2. They tried to cheat their way out of relegation this year by complaining about the Taunton pitch in the match finished yesterday in the hope that points would be deducted even though Somerset managed to score 200+ twice and Hildreth scored a century. I gather Fraser was still whinging about it last night.

    Karma, as far as I am concerned. It probably helps to know that I am a follower of the Cidermen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  10. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

    Despite the above, I have some sympathy over the docking of the 2 points. Just so long as the ECB doesn't decide to withdraw that penalty and relegate Somerset instead...
     
  11. oxhey67

    oxhey67 Reservist

    Talking on commentary during todays ODI, it was mentioned the 2 points were docked because of a slow over rate - D'OH!
    It was also mentioned it could've been avoided by a declaration - D'OH! D'OH!

    Maybe, as you rightly pointed out Keighly, after last seasons final game manufacturing (which I'd completely forgotten about) Middlesex thought they'd play in the spirit of the game this time round?

    Either/either, as Stuboy is correct in summising, the batting was woeful this year and if you finish with less points than other teams you'll end up below them in the table.
     
  12. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    Ok, so point 1, this has happened for years and years, so shouldn't come as any surprise to followers of the county game. Obviously you're annoyed as it screwed Somerset last season, but Middlesex have also been screwed in this way before now.
    Point 2, yeah I agree that one is a bit rich considering Somerset managed to score runs on the pitch. It's just an excuse for Middlesex's abject batting this season really. The Fraser years should be over now in my opinion, I've never really forgiven him for the amount of time we spent in Division 2 before. He should have done better then. To be honest 2016 we were a bit lucky, but really we still have a squad that shouldn't get relegated.

    Real karma would be Hampshire going down, as they should have last season.
     
  13. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    Yes, but Middlesex didn't get a chance to potentially rectify that because nutcase some fired a crossbow arrow onto the pitch and the game was stopped after that. Who knows, they might have increased the rate late in the day? So a little harsh to get a deduction in this case. Which is why when I see people saying things like the ECB and Strauss try everything they can to help Middlesex I just laugh. Additionally, if they do love us, how come we've only managed to win one County Championship and one T20 title in over 20 years? I'd expect us to win more if we were the establishments favourites.
     
  14. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

    I've no great love for Hampshire either but 2016 still rankles with Somerset fans. I agree that it has happened for ages and that we would probably have done the same in the same circumstances but it's especially galling when it deprives you of a first ever CC on the very last afternoon of the season (as happened to us in 2010 as well - when we ended up on the same number of points as champions Notts, but with one fewer win - though in that case we lost out due to a Lancs collapse). The joke bowling for a declaration last year was just about OK but the agreement that Yorkshire would continue to chase the target even if they had no hope of reaching it smelt pretty bad to us cider-swilling types. If you put my points 1 and 2 together it seems pretty hypocritical: happy to contrive a finish to win you the title; grumbling about a pitch which admittedly played to our strong suit of spin but on which we were still able to score the highest first innings total in Div 1 this week.
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2017
  15. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

    The 2 point deduction is harsh, I agree. I actually think the fairest solution would be to revert to a 9 team division next year and squeeze in some extra matches. Sure we could lose some T20 'Blast'. Won't happen though.

    Who says the County Championship is dull, eh?
     
  16. oxhey67

    oxhey67 Reservist

    I'm getting old. Or stupid. More stupider? Stupidly old probably sums it up.

    I'd forgotten the deduction came about during 'Crossbow-gate' (don't they make baby food?) so yeah, harsh.
    For some reason I remembered it as being early in the season.

    I've just read a piece quoting Fraser saying Middlesex were told they wouldn't be punished because of the early abandonment but, obviously, were.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41447783
    The later quote from the Middlesex chief exec. doesn't bode well for any appeal/leniency though.
    It's an odd situation and would hate to be Somerset if the 2 points were reinstated. That doesn't seem fair either - unless it was happening to Surrey!
     
  17. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

    It seems very harsh especially if they were told there would be no penalty. To use a legal term, that seems to create a "legitimate expectation" that no penalty would be imposed, which would be unlawful to renege upon.

    However, two points:
    1. They might have done better to have kicked up more of a fuss about this last month. It makes it look like they have accepted it, and are only questioning it now they realised what an impact it had;
    2. As you say, it would be very harsh on Somerset if it were to relegate them. But more than that - if it was known that Middlesex had two more points than the table showed, both Somerset and Hampshire might have played at least the last match, if not others, differently e.g. in Somerset's case, batting a bit more carefully in the first innings to try to get 2 more bonus points. To use another legal term, both counties have placed "reliance" on Middlesex being deducted points.

    As a Somerset fan, it worries me a bit that the obvious way to resolve the Middlesex mess is to deduct points for the state of the Taunton pitch (apparently there is still a chance, albeit slim, that this could happen). But the effect either of that or of just restoring the 2 points to Middlesex would again be for the ECB to a intervene to alter the table after the end of the season, as they did last year with Durham - and that was pretty controversial. I think (?hope) they would be reluctant to do that again. Which is why I suggested exceptionally keeping the division with 9 teams next year. But you're right - let's just relegate Surrey instead, on the grounds that they are an arrogant bunch of so and sos!
     
    oxhey67 likes this.
  18. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

    EDIT: I see Middlesex did discuss the deduction at the time:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/41212768.

    It's all a bit of a mess, frankly. No doubt the ECB ardently wishes that either Somerset or Hampshire had been relegated....
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2017
  19. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

  20. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

    Uncovered pitches, my mother with a stick of rhubarb, blah, blah blah...
     
  21. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

  22. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Nothing wrong with the pitch apart from it was probably tailored to make sure there was a result. I think it's more unfair that England players cannot play more for their counties. My team lose Root Bairstow Plunkett Rashid and Ballance for large parts of the season
     
  23. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

  24. Keighley

    Keighley Reservist

  25. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

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