N/A Craig Dawson

Discussion in 'The Team Bus' started by nornironhorn, Aug 28, 2020.

  1. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    I thought they still had the option of signing him for £3m?
     
  2. Maybe once they have bought him from us for £3m they will let us buy him back for £7m ?
     
    Otter and Happy bunny like this.
  3. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    We should be able to get more than £3m for him, I reckon we could double that at least, if not more.
     
  4. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    I think the general consensus is that WHU have an option to make it permanent at a pre-agreed price, so around £3m.
     
  5. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    Moyes: Craig Dawson ‘Worthy’ of West Ham Stay | Forever West Ham

    With Moyes claiming the clause to trigger the permanent transfer is close and is based on appearances, I expect the clause is 15 appearances then West Ham have to buy. Dawson has made 12 appearances so far.

    It looks like this will turn out to be yet another huge f*** up by the ever so shrewd decision makers. We sign him for £5.5m in July 2019, then only 12 months later we loan to West Ham, in a deal that will see us sell for around £2m (if reports at the time of the loan are accurate). So we'd have taken a £3.5m hit for a player who is now pulling up trees for his new club. Just more brainless thinking. No wonder we are in such a mess right now.
     
  6. nornironhorn

    nornironhorn Administrator Staff Member

    I don't think the load to WHU itself was a bad deal, moreso signing him and not having other decent CBs to pair him with (looks like he is one of those players whose own performance is massively impacted by those around him, same with Cathcart) and also not having any means of utilising his goal scoring threat from set-pieces due to our dire deliveries.
     
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  7. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Yes Aaron Cresswell can take a corner - kind of helps.

    Also must get help from a midfield that want to perform and help the back line by protecting them.
     
    Timbers likes this.
  8. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Actually watched this game yesterday out of boredom, he played very well and almost scored a second. Completely different player to when he was with us but that's no surprise considering how much of a shambles we were on and off the pitch last season.

    Dawson 4 England
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  9. Plenty of posters on here were delighted to have him off the wage bill at the time. Another deal that looks **** with hindsight.
     
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  10. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    3M for a player that is near call up to England is a scandal. That doesn't even cover Lardy chuckles' salary for a season probably
     
  11. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    No hindsight as far as I'm concerned. Paying £5.5m then agreeing a deal for £2m (if that proves to be the fee) just 12 months later is bad negotiation and very poor financial leadership in my book. It's just another example of poor management which has led to relegation and probably no promotion. If we do go up, it would be in spite of that they've done, not because of it.
     
  12. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    When we got Marlon King on loan from Forest in the summer of 2005, there was an agreed fee to pay in the January if we wanted to keep him. Obviously we did as he had a great start to that campaign and Forest fans were annoyed they couldn't get more for him in January 2006.
     
  13. Eastcoastorn

    Eastcoastorn First Year Pro

    I don’t think you can criticise the deal. At the time he was loaned out most of us were so glad to lose him and were laughing at West Ham thinking he would be relegated for a third time. He was hopeless from day one for us. Fair play to him as he has actually proved that he can be a good player in the right team. Don’t think anyone saw that apart from West Ham.
     
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  14. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    How is that the owners fault? It is not their fault he was poor for us last season. He clearly doesn't want to be in The Championship so we agree to loan him out which covers some of his wages with an agreed fee at the end of it. I don't think anybody saw this form coming. When he went on loan he was not worth the £5.5m we paid but probably is now
     
  15. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    You're missing the point. We buy for £5.5m then sell for £2m just 12 months later. It's just nuts to commit to a deal like that, when we are apparently strapped for cash. Just another example of poor judgement. The criticism is not of moving on Dawson, but the financial deal we've struck with West Ham.
     
    Jumbolina likes this.
  16. ForzaWatford

    ForzaWatford Squad Player

    HB, do you understand that literally no-one would have paid anymore for him than that? He was awful for us. We were all amazed West Ham took him in the first place. I don't think you can use Dawson as a stick to beat the Pozzo's with, for all their mistakes.
     
  17. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    We signed him when we were in the Premier League. We might well be cash strapped now but we signed him around the same time as we spent £30m+ on Sarr so wouldn't say we were strapped for cash. Sometimes you will lose out on a deal but the start of the season there is now way we were going to get that money back we spent through no fault of the owners. What deal would you have suggested we could have gone for? Asked for £5.5m? I imagine we did try and get more but we had a player who had been poor, had no wish to be here and that we didn't want. We have saved on wages and will get a transfer fee at the end of the season.
    Not ideal but it happens
     
  18. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    It's just another example, in a long line of poor decisions. The best case scenario for us in this deal was to lose £3.5m. What an intelligent owner would do is loan him to West Ham, with an option to buy but the figure would be at least what we paid for him or negotiated after the loan deal. Not a nominal £2m fee. Geez.......do you think West Ham couldn't afford to spend more than £2m? It's just nuts that some fans are trying to actually defend this as a good deal, or one we had to make. It was crap from day one.
     
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  19. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    No fault of the owners? It's totally down to the ineptitude of the owner why we're no longer in the Premier League and are so cash strapped. They've put us in this position. All their own work and no one else to blame but them. The crap Dawson deal is a consequence of that.
     
  20. Correct. We should have just sold him for £15m. Why can they not see this ?
     
  21. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    We are talking about Craig Dawson, hence the title of thread. Even if we had stayed up I would have happily flogged Dawson for £2-3m. He was rubbish
     
  22. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    He's on a role now, this could go on for some time
     
  23. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    He did well and has done but Leeds could have got a couple of goals if Bamford had his shooting boots on and there was a tight offside call before West Ham scored.
     
  24. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    How often do clubs buy a 28 year old English defender with the expectation of selling on for more money than you paid? Not often.

    I bought a five year old car once and within a year decided it was not for me. I sold it for less than I paid and the new owner was presumably pleased.

    If his agent has anything about him, he will be touting him to Liverpool, and wet spam will be in a wages bidding war. All Craig needs to do is decide not to sign and see the offers roll in over the summer.
     
  25. HB1 is right that as a whole chapter it isn't good business, and the fact that it didn't work for him, and we had to get whatever deal we could in the summer, was as a result of lots of examples of mis-management. However at that time, that was the only option open to us to get an expensive reserve off the payroll. A £3m loss isn't great but it's not unexpected for a deal that just didn't work out for either party for whatever reason, and it's less of a financial hit than the Gray signing.
     
    põder likes this.
  26. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    According to the Athletic, he's a few games away from sealing a £2m permanent deal (£3m if you include the initial £1m loan fee), but with the potential to go higher if they reach Europe
     
  27. RS2

    RS2 First Year Pro

    A horrible signing for us, he was absolutely rancid. Good luck to him at West Ham but I can't see him maintaining this form. Take the money, get the wages off the books and let's all move on.
     
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  28. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    He'd had an underwhelming last 2 seasons at West Brom really, was a cheap punt of a signing, a gamble to rely solely on him to improve the defence that backfired. Absolutely certain he goes back to being a donkey before too long
     
    RS2 likes this.
  29. RS2

    RS2 First Year Pro

    I see why the club signed him, but he should have replaced Mariappa. The club should have signed a first choice centre back as well as Dawson.
     
  30. Dawson was signed as a first choice. It just didn't work out for either party. He wouldn't have joined as "back up to the back ups" which was Mapps role.
     
  31. Bore

    Bore Reservist

    I thought he was OK although was poor for last few games of Premiership.
    I certainly would not say his time at Watford was a disaster
     
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  32. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    I thinks thats a fair assessment. After a year or so away from Premier League opposition it was going to take a bit of time to get back in the grove. Plus you look at the players around him at West Ham and their solid 4-2-3-1 and he looks a solid player.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  33. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    I know it's not really fair to blame one person for our relegation but I still get annoyed that he gave a needless penalty away after 30 seconds in the Arsenal game. It was the most stupid decision a player could ever make in a must win game where the opposition were there for the taking. Will be glad when he's no longer on our books.
     
  34. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    The loan is fine. The £2m agreed fee (if that is what it actually is) seems very poor business from the owners given how much we paid for him. If had been poor for West Ham he’d have been back here with 2 years left on this contract. If he did well they get a bargain. Either way Pozzo has the bad end of it.

    Edit: just read about loan fee which makes it more palatable
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2021
  35. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Actually the £1m loan fee makes the £2m fee feel less of a bum deal I guess. Wages off books, fee guaranteed and we lose a couple of million on a poor signing. Not so bad when considered holistically I suppose.
     
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