Covid-19 Virus

Good work, now with nothing to do you can admin a Werewolf.

 

Another nail in the coffin of our economy

 

Great work. I’ve done no more than replace a broken light switch. The lad, on the other hand, is building himself a bike, largely out of spares in the garage (though a new frame).

 

I'd love to but I'd have trouble keeping my mouth shut and refrain from voting.

 

Should have voted Labour then.

 

Labour? There's a name from the past. Whatever happened to them?

 

I am really starting to take to Keir Starmer, he really is starting to take BJ apart. He really has nailed him on the negligent government advice on care homes. BJ would have been much better to answer this by saying that the early advice was wrong, but was changed rather than lying and saying that isn’t what the government said. I think most people agree that the government has got a really tough job, but that doesn’t excuse some of the terrible earlier mistakes that have been made

 

I was thinking the same, this is a new scenario for a modern government, so understandably mistakes will be made (particularly when viewed in hindsight) but a government must quickly learn and rectify advice where the data suggests. The simplest answer Boris could have given was as you said.

 

He is certainly more formidable than Corbyn, but that wouldn't be difficult.

But we have different opinions of what impresses us. He is a man who says that he wants to be constructive, be positive and work with the government. He is a liar regarding his intentions. He has offered no support at all and takes delight in being destructive at every opportunity.

He referred to 12th March, whereas the paper he was referring to was actually published in February. This is the preamble to the the paper that was a 16 page 3000 word document.

This guidance is intended for the current position in the UK where there is currently no transmission of COVID-19 in the community. It is therefore very unlikely that anyone receiving care in a care home or the community will become infected. This is the latest information and will be updated shortly.

It is therefore clearly expected to be a temporary document that would be updated when new scientific advice became available.

Following Boris's speech on the 12th, it was updated on the 13th March and there was no such reference. Indeed, when we look at the graphs and numbers available now, it seems that there was not much transition into care homes before 13th March as the numbers of deaths in care homes only seemed to go up more than a month later.The PM didn't write the two guidance documents published and it would have been easy to confuse the two, even if he had remembered it amongst all the other papers he receives.

Yet Starmer thinks he is clever digging out a small reference in the middle of a long document that was withdrawn the same day, and it impresses you, and anybody else that sees our government losing points during this tragedy.

Personally, I think point scoring at this time when we need unity more than anything, is destructive as it destroys what consensus behind measures that need to be carefully controlled and this continual point scoring will lead to lives being lost.

I think Boris did not get it wrong intentionally on something that he would easily get found out on. He was genuinely confused.

 

33,186 lives have been lost, with more being quoted by the ONS....but go ahead, Starmer is the villain here.

 

You are making a fair point, it shouldn't be on here. But whenever the anti government posters want to score political points in this thread, it invariably takes root. There is no point me responding in another thread to a post on this thread.

 

Yes, and Boris manufactured the virus himself. He didn't go on holiday over Christmas, he went on a worldwide spreading spree.

 

Childish response, I'll just take that as having no intelligent rebuttal.

Good day.

 

Your rebuttal to my detailed post was merely a number. Hardly intelligent Hornetgags, but not surprising. I just followed in kind.

 

Play the UCL Covid-19 riskometer and find out when you’ll meet your maker:

http://covid19-phenomics.org/PrototypeOurRiskCoV.html

Ok, not quite, but it helps to explain the increase risk of death to people like you based on your age, pre-exiting conditions etc.

 

My post summed up your diatribe...quality not quantity.

Perhaps you need a nap.

 

What destroys confidence is they continue not to learn from their mistakes, like the hasty announcement on Sunday of a return to work without giving people and transport services much chance to prepare. When questioned on things the Government inevitably just tries to manage the message like an election rather than the problem itself. Deaths too high? We'll just stop showing that graph then.

 

I never really liked him in the past. Hard to put my finger on it but whenever I saw him interviewed he always seemed a bit smug, maybe slightly condescending with that frown of his. My opinion has completely changed on him though. Being a barrister he’s pretty much the exact opposite of Borris. Nothing is going to get past him, and rather than using big words and bluster with little real substance, he’s capable of picking everything apart and seeing it for what it is.

 

I think the care home misinformation is really just indicative of the overall government approach. They didn’t see this as an issue until March despite the fact this was confirmed as a global pandemic on the 1st Feb. We are paying now for some of that early complacency. The fact that BJ didn’t attend a Cobra meeting until March really just underlines that point. Anyone who accepts the government statement that it is normal for the PM not to attend a Cobra meeting for something so serious is just plain thick. In February this was an issue that was happening in Italy and China, and it wasn’t until we started to get deaths in this country that the started to act. This largely explains why we have been slow on so many things. I think Kier has been pretty constructive to this point, and it really is a bit rich when BJ has been caught talking rubbish to throw that back as being unconstructive. What is important is how the government navigates us out of this, but that task is made harder due to some of the earlier mistakes. We had advanced warning compared to the rest of Europe that Covid was coming our way, and the preparation that was put in place was pathetic

 

It's rubbish. It said I would become sick on 22nd of March and be sick for 3 weeks. It was 23rd March and 2.5 weeks. Absolute rubbish, a complete guess.

 

It wasn't classed as a pandemic until 11th March. You are 6 weeks out. On the 1st February were still saying there needs to be no travel or trade restrictions.

Why did the UK have advanced warning over the rest of Europe? Are you saying that no one flew into the UK carrying the virus in those early months?

Please explain why trying to catch out the PM on policy guidelines on the 12th March that were changed on the 13th is constructive in following the road map back to normality in May? Give me some constructive statements Starmer has made that weren't accompanied by criticism.

 

He's trying to be smart with hindsight. Anyone idiot can do that, point at what happened and waffle on about why it was wrong. At least Corbyn was out front trying to forge a path, whether you agreed with it or not. I don't think the British public will be fooled by Starmer, he's not the guy to bring Labour back to power.

 

They stopped showing the graph because it was not comparing like with like, and simpletons were taking it as gospel and drawing incorrect conclusions.

The government are continually learning from changes in the science and new data. Then you jump on it as a "U turn". If the opposition and media weren't so determined to undermine the government with criticisms, then you would see the government having to try and manage the message like an election. They need to retain credibility as they are trying to get the public to behave in a controlled way as we come out of the lockdown gradually.

Where has the government mandated that everyone goes back to work today? Boris said people should be actively encouraged to go back to work when it is safe to do so, and only if they can't work at home. So, if a business (or school) takes a month to prepare, then so be it. If the buses and trains had more time to prepare, how many would they prepare for? It is a number that will progressively increase at an unknown rate.

 

We simply note that we are nowhere near your threshold for even constructive criticism of your boys and girls.

There is absolutely no prospect that blaming everyone else, the media, the unions, Labour etc is going to make the real problems of the Government’s approach go away.

 

And the fact that you have no answer to the points I made, show that I am right.

 

And this is why politics and politicians are so **** at the moment.

Starmer was right but the whole point of the question was to draw Johnson into a trap and politically point score. It's not right the time for that.

But rather than just admit what he said to the house was factually incorrect and the advice at the time should have been different, Johnson has accused Starmer of misquoting the advice and being uncooperative.

Where are the grown ups when we need them?

 

The problem wholly lies with the Government, its failures and the lies it tells about those failures. Don’t test? Set a silly target. Don’t meet it? Lie about it. Your press will print a triumphant headline anyway.

This whole style of Government, lazy, reactive, deceitful needs to be prised apart and dismantled until it is fit to face the challenges of the next couple of years. Otherwise we will just do it all again.

 

You don’t answer why the graphs were helpful, but now are not.

U-turns are not the issue, failures and lies are. The discharging of Covid+ patients to Care Homes was an absolute disaster. The April 16 U-turn was a blessed relief. The subsequent lies and denial are not.

The Government told everyone who can return to work today to do so. It said so on Sunday, though it appeared to mean Monday on Sunday and by Monday it was Wednesday. Didn’t you watch Boris’s Presidential address?

 

I don't disagree but the right time to address the failings of the government's policy two months ago will be as part of a public inquiry.

I would prefer the opposition and media to concentrate on what the government is doing now rather than trying to get "gotcha points" based on "mistakes" they made literally weeks ago.

 

The chances of a COVID-19 outbreak in the UK have been significantly raised by the first "community" transmission of the virus.
Until now doctors have identified suspected cases by testing people who have returned from certain high-risk countries and have flu-like symptoms.
It will be much harder to identify infected individuals who have not been outside the UK.

SkyNews, 1st March

Report from SPI-M-O to Sage on 2nd March
https://assets.publishing.service.g...ment-on-2019-novel-coronavirus-_covid-19_.pdf


A government which was on its game would not have waited 12 days to alert care homes that the advice was now obsolete.

 

From someone alleging himself to be Malcolm Tucker:
"The thing I'm enjoying most about the #PMQs rebrand, is Keir Starmer's slight air of weariness, as he digs a big ******* hole made of facts and government issued data only to watch Johnson stagger straight into it like a pissed hefalump that's been gorging on fermenting fruit."

 

Because they were the best we had, now they are not, and simpletons like still accepted them blindly.

The point is, they weren't "U turns" but according to critics, they were.

I directly quoted Boris's words the other day. Your problem is you can't read, no wonder you are confused about what the government advice is.

 

Sorry have I accidentally wandered into the politics section ?
There's a whole separate thread for CV19 politics isn't there ? Please take this petty Tory vs Labour off to that thread. The point scoring in here is as bad as in the HoC.

 

It's the second wave we all feared.