Covid-19 Virus

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by Hornet4ever, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    For someone who thinks he has an interest in the poor, you have an amazing lack of awareness how being cooped for weeks or months up in a tiny house or flat with bored, screaming kids and a volatile or strained adult relationship can be. Why on earth do you need proof before you believe it will cause some lasting problems?

    The effects of locking the nation into their homes and shutting schools is something the government needed to consider before rushing to do it, and at the moment I am glad they delayed a bit. It isn't all about money, and not everybody lives in their spacious suburban home with a garden and patio.
     
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  2. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    W**k**s, fair enough for those who live nearby wanting a walk or run.

    This was always going to happen with some people who don't believe in the rules. I wonder whether the police could have preempted it by having a road block on Stratford Way, Langley Way, Cassiobury Avenue, Shepherds Road and Gade Avenue. They're pretty much the only roads going in to the areas around the park
     
  3. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I said for many, not all.

    You don’t seem to get that for those under pressure in the way you suggest, particularly those in tiny flats, normal life can be pressured and dysfunctional. Yet people don’t generally turn on each other and their kids en masse.

    You are quite wrong that the delay in doing it was good. You seem oblivious to what is happening today, a direct consequence of the delay.
     
  4. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    As far as the delay is concerned, surely the question is simply when do you want your peak? In some utopian society we could’ve locked down when we had one case, and remained in lockdown until we had a vaccine. In the real world there are a million and one different things to balance against each other, not least having enough equipment, enough tests, weighing up how much we can afford to trash the economy and how long people will stay in their homes for.
     
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  5. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Remembering this post from 11 March. Thank heavens the home game on the 14th didn’t go ahead.
     
  6. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    One game going ahead would’ve made no net difference if social distancing wasn’t also being observed already across the board.
     
  7. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    It’s not a zero sum game. An earlier lockdown (at the point we knew we had significant cases) would have meant less virus now.

    With the rest of the World taking action, new strategies developing, it wouldn’t mean exactly the same amount of virus,just spread out. It would be a different game.

    We clearly had a significant outbreak in Herts by 11 March. And yet the Government was happy for people to travel from all over the Country to watch our home game, rammed in the concourses, taking a steamy piss with 100 others, taking the slow walk alongside the ground in a cloud of smoke. It wasn’t sensible.
     
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  8. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    You’re imagining a scenario with large events such as football matches which simply does not happen or exist.
     
  9. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    What scenario am I imagining?
     
  10. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It would have made a difference if plenty of unknowingly contagious people had attended the game and spent 90 mins close to other fans they then infected. That could have spiralled.
     
  11. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I think this sort of outcome was inevitable. So many people can legitimately walk to the park for their day’s exercise. If everyone arrives at the same time it’s pretty difficult not to pass within 2 metres of someone else. Now it’s shut where will they all walk ?
     
  12. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    No, not at all. All the experts, the government, every single model, all say the same thing, cancelling large gatherings makes absolutely no difference on its own. You’re completely misplacing your focus on the Watford game going ahead or not, it’s got to be all or nothing. The question is should we have been doing what we’re doing now before the Watford game, and by default it wouldn’t have been going ahead anyway. Focusing purely on the Watford game (or any one off event) while normal life continued as normal is a massive red herring.

    Corona is no doubt very contagious, but the princess cruise ship has given us a perfect study of just how contagious, it’s about R0 2.6. People somehow imagine a large scale gathering as like a zombie attack. Somebody infected infects somebody else, they then infect somebody else and the virus spreads throughout the event. That’s how it spreads amongst a general population, but not at an event. Somebody who is infectious may well infect other people, but they will not in turn infect other other people at the event, they will not be contagious for a number of days. Let’s work from the top down, somebody who is infections for a start won’t come into contact with anyone from three of the four stands. They won’t in turn come in to contact with the vast majority of the stand they’re in. They won’t then infect everybody they come within a certain radius of, that’s not how viruses spread. They’ll infect about 2.6 people, the same as they would at work, down the pub, at the gym, in the supermarket.

    An event happening or not will have no impact on the spread of the virus, unless strict social distancing measures are in place across every aspect of our lives
     
  13. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I can only go on the effect on the people I know Moose but I seriously doubt millions of people are finding more pros than cons in this situation.

    I currently work for a public sector body that isn’t essential in this emergency, so we’re all now working from home and have closed our public-facing side. I manage a team of 11 pretty switched on people. They’re all over 30 (so no youthful inexperience) and there’s no immediate job security or pay worries. Yet I reckon 10 of them have been negatively affected by the lockdown due to non-work factors. 2 have nearly been broken already by sudden massively increased caring responsibilities forced upon them and genuine worries for elderly relatives. I know it’s completely anecdotal but I’d say your idea of people having their mental health ‘boosted’ in this situation is complete fantasy land stuff.
     
  14. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Any iota of common sense tells you that what you’ve just posted is nonsense.
    Of course social distancing is important to limit the spread but to suggest without it, the speed of contamination wouldn’t be affected by banning large groups gathering or not, is ridiculous. Unless you assume that every person would come into contact with the exact same number of complete strangers in the 2 hrs of not attending the gathering, it’s clear the chances of spreading infection must be higher.
     
  15. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I'm sorry, but you are not faithfully describing my argument. I was in favour of widespread earlier action, so postponing all games. The reason, because of the clear likelihood that events like our home game would have in themselves created hundreds of cases.
     
  16. Not to make light of those who do have mental health problems, is anyone like me finding the shutdown of my business strangely liberating - as in there's nothing I can do about it, so treat it as a sabbatical. (Admittedly, owing to my parsimonious spending patterns over the last few years, finance is not an issue for me)
     
  17. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Yes, there are lots of different scenarios and also ways of mitigating many of the issues. I'm not saying it won't be a struggle for some who are split between work and family. I'm simply responding to the article headline claiming wife beating and child abuse will be a consequence. That seems a very dim view of how the UK deals with a very mixed bag of experiences.

    But surely you can see that now it needs to be seen through at least to the earliest possible exit?
     
  18. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Look it up, read the imperial college report. Banning large events on their own would make absolutely no difference.
     
  19. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Maybe we’re talking at crossed purposes, but the Watford game going ahead or not would make no difference in isolation. Someone infected will spread the disease wherever they go, unless they are confined to their homes with no contact with anybody. The laws of science are not suddenly suspended at a football match and a virus suddenly becomes a lot more contagious than it is anywhere else.
     
  20. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I agree with their premise that banning large events on their own isn’t the answer. It would clearly slow the spread but would be a very ineffective strategy on its own.
     
  21. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Correct. If they mix closely with 20-30 people at the footy they would spread to more new targets than if they spent the same time gardening.
     
  22. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    But you’re ignoring the science by saying that. They mix with 20-30 people at a public event and you think they give it to how many of them, all of them? Half of them? That’s not how it works, if it was the virus would’ve moved through the population within a week.
     
  23. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    No. You’re ignoring common sense, the science and basic statistics. If an infected person mixes closely with 50 people over 24 hr period or 2 people over 24 hrs, which scenario do you think will probably result in the most infections ? Your view seems to be “exactly the same” unless there is a general isolation rule in place ?
     
  24. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    That said we could have done a tracker graph showing that amazingly all the attendees didn’t live in Watford. Instructive and valuable. “Colour me impressed” and all that.
     
  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Case of short term physical health v long term mental health and social interaction?

    Has to be a happy medium somewhere.
     
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  26. Derek Acorah, but he's dead.
     
  27. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    A position wholly supported by Dr. Anthony Fauci, currently heading up the US response (and one of the few apparently competent people on the US federal outbreak team).

    https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/11/fauci-recommends-against-large-crowds-coronavirus/

    It's correct to say banning large gatherings alone isn't enough to wholly manage the outbreak, but it isn't correct to say it has no impact at all.
     
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  28. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I wonder if this happened quite like it’s been portrayed? A lot of people on social media saying thousands of people went there apparently, but no pictures of it full of people. It does appear that the emergency services landed helicopters there later though, so maybe it was closed for that reason or maybe just a precaution to stop it getting full?

    Anyway, just wondering if Watford is fully deserving it’s current most stupid town in the nation status.
     
  29. cyaninternetdog

    cyaninternetdog Forum Hippie

  30. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Squad Player

    As mentioned earlier, my mate is in the police and domestic violence cases are through the roof. Don't underestimate what horrible animals people are. Not sure why the UK would be any different from anywhere else either, it's less a land of tea, scones and good manners these days (if it ever was anyway).
     
  31. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I see that that NHS staff are complaining that they are faced with too much red tape when they go to NHS test centres like the one at the o2 centre. Apparantly they are being asked for their NHS staff ID and an email confirming the appointment.

    Is that too much red tape, it sounds pretty reasonable to me?
     
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  32. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    You see it where?
     
  33. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Blimey, do you not believe me again? It was in mentioned yesterday in the press conference thingy, and is being mentioned as a "scandal" in today's press.
     
  34. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    No, I don’t believe you as a matter of principle. You seem particularly prone to exaggerations and lies right now, so where is it?

    Oh but here it is, in the ******* Sun newspaper. Hands up who needs more than a minute to see through this ********?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11330...-them-from-getting-swabs-from-more-nhs-staff/

    My problem is you posit a reasonable thing, that staff shouldn’t have much difficulty in finding their NHS ID and their appointment email and then assume they are making a big fuss without a direct quote from any nor their unions or professional bodies.

    You just want to snipe and you read the papers to suit.
     
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  35. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Can't you read? I told you it was discussed in yesterday's press conference, and it as also discussed on the BBC this morning.

    It must be a sad little life you lead that whenever you hear something you disagree with, you assume it must be lies. Open your eyes and ears, and engage brain, Moose, you will find it enlightening.
     
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