Covid-19 Virus

Incredible experiences that people have of the pandemic. This Yemeni doctor had her hands full with the Civil War and then Covid. Her and one nurse alone in a hospital doing everything.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-55563798

 

There is more electronic money in the system this is true . But not more cash .
Eventually there will be the mother of all recessions because of this .
History tells us this to be true

 

Well the QE is trying to stop the recession. The recession will happen because businesses have been hammered by lockdown and for the ones left their customers have also been impacted (either as owners/employees of destroyed/impacted businesses or victims of resulting government cuts). QE is probably just kicking the can down the road.

 

Not sure about this .
Not everyone has been negatively affected by lockdown and have been unable to spend their disposal
income . When lockdown finishes for good there will be a short-lived "boom" as people look to spend their money .

 

I'm not so sure about that. We're not locked down over here and our business has yet to recover since the Governor's stay-at-home order was overturned in May. We're massively down over last year, even if you only look at the June-December timeframe.

People have gotten out of the habit of doing certain things and they might never get back into those same habits.

 

You will have to excuse my ignorance
Where is "over here" and what is your business ?

 

Yes I’d agree there will be pent up demand. Going out will be a novelty and holidays etc. But surely that will be outweighed by people furloughed and then let go and small businesses which have been destroyed. Confidence will be low for some time with a worry of another wave. Oh and brexit on top

 

Over here = US.
Business = small business we own.

Our state is not locked down at all after the courts found it illegal, and our small business is financially way down for the year (as are those of everyone we know).

 

Seems like they are worried about this new version in that it might not protect people who have had the vaccine ?

 

UK Government now saying the UK variant is 30% more lethal than the original strains, although a scientist from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine (?) says "anywhere from 10% to 50%".

Not good news any way you slice it, really, especially if the hospitalization rates are also higher.

 

Yes it is very worrying. Looking at the Spanish flu, the second and third waves were worse than the first, hopefully when this wave passes the strain mostly wipes itself out.

 

I've not been reading this thread for a while so apologies if this has come up before...

I realise kids don't have to wear masks but after being in Watford General Hospital today with a parent in the blood clinic, I was somewhat taken aback that six of the eight children I saw were without them inside the building.

The two who wore them must have been 4 or 5 years old and happily sat with their mum as they played on a couple of kids electronic screen thingys.

The others, ranging in age from somewhere in the region of 8 years to low teens were moving about the waiting area, three in particular as their mums stood and chatted for a while.

It just seems bloody odd they are still exempt from wearing any kind of face covering in a hospital. Ye gads.

 

I had a friend in Watford general. Had some personal items to take him. They had an efficient volunteer hub, to deliver items to the wards, you weren’t allowed in the main block. Just to nip in to the hub office by the front door. Was full mask only. Surprised children exempt.

 

Yes the percentage sound alarming. But it’s also important to say a 30% uptick in mortality means 13 out of 1000 die rather than 10 from the original variant.

 

And another teacher, this one a fit 55 year old.

COVID-19: Family of teacher who died with coronavirus say school staff must be 'priority' for vaccination.

http://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...aff-must-be-priority-for-vaccination-12195441

 

The trouble is these are big numbers. So 30% extra on top of, say 50k more pandemic deaths to come (at a complete guess) is an extra 15k deaths and maybe shifted to slightly younger.

 

I think that if it is shown that teachers are at a significantly higher risk than other people such as retail workers, transport staff, utility workers, police, fire, etc then they should get priority, but I don't think that has shown to be the case.

 

Encouraging news from Israel regarding their vaccine and hospital admissions.

https://mobile.twitter.com/epkaufm/status/1352960284999221248

 

Telegraph reporting that the Government coul give councils the power to shut pubs , restaurants etc till July .


Guess that is a worse case situation ?

 

Gosh, that’s hardcore. I think you can suggest they are a priority now, with schools open to up to 40% in some areas, without meaning more than those other key workers.

When does your 2021 campaign against their unions start? Before they have been vaccinated or after?

After these deaths, do you not want to revisit your accusations of unions obsessed with health and safety to score points or head teachers advocating masks for no good reason?

 

Why is it "hardcore". Surely the vaccines should be distributed where they are most needed. And I have said that if it is shown that the teachers are the most needy, then they should get them. Not hardcore, mere common sense.

What deaths are you talking about? Do you mean in general, or specifically for teachers? You will have to explain or clarify for my benefit, then I can answer.

I havn't mentioned unions here, it is the wrong section (not recently anyway), what are you on about?

 

Why do you keep saying ‘if’? Of course they are at greater risk than many. Not more than other key workers, but right in the front line.

For months you downplayed the risk and criticised their unions, often in scathing terms. Now you should accept these tragedies show that relatively young teachers are at risk and caution should prevail in this (hopefully last) phase.

 

Indirectly related to Covid but not sure where else to put this. The heavy snowfall today reminds me of countless times over the years having to struggle into work in heavy snow. 20 minute train journeys taking three hours, car crashes, being stuck in my car for 8 hours on a 30 minute journey. All pointless journeys as I could’ve easily worked from home but it just wasn’t accepted by so many companies. The U.K. has a reputation for grinding to a halt when it snows, but only because millions of people were made to make utterly pointless and dangerous journeys into work. Making it in was often seen as some sort of badge of honour, and like you cared more about your job.

Hopefully now with the change to wfh, next time we get heavy snow, all these companies who claim ‘we built our business in the cloud’ and who say they effortlessly ‘pivoted’ to wfh (even though they never allowed it before Covid) will just tell everyone to stay at home, won’t they??

 

Sure this story will provoke some debate?

Seems they are being put in the group 4 section with CEV and over 70s.

https://www.itv.com/news/2021-01-24/prisoners-will-not-jump-jab-queue-as-levi-bellfield-offered-vaccine

 

I say "if" because you have been unable to show that they are more at risk, than say shopworkers, and the others I've mentioned. And sorry, I still don't know whey they are in the front line. Doctors and nurses are in the front line as they work with known infected people. How are teachers in the front line and more than others? And please just show me the stats that demonstrate that they are at higher risk than the others I have mentioned.

I havn't said I don't approve, I've merely asked you to explain your position with some facts and figures rather than with sweeping bland and general statements. If you did that, then I'd more than likely agree with you.

 

I don’t think the article says that, does it?

 

Ah sorry mis read it .

 

I'm not arguing they are more at risk than shop workers, I made that clear. Why are you arguing that? Internet tactics?

But of course they are in the front line. It's just extraordinary, given the difficulties in social distancing and the recent waves of infection in schools that you would argue otherwise.

I would say maybe guilt on your part for you haranguing every attempt to keep them safe, but that would suggest some empathy or insight.

 

Are these the first teacher deaths then? I can only speak for myself, but whenever I’ve talked of low risk in respect of Covid I’ve always known that isn’t the same as ‘no risk’ and therefore a handful of deaths was always expected.

What’s increasingly clear is that once the most clinically vulnerable are vaccinated (mid-Feb?) there’s going to be a bit of a bun fight over who should come next. We can’t afford to allow emotion or whoever can shout loudest to dictate that, especially as vaccine supply will still be finite in any given period. So if there’s a case for teachers to be part of the next wave it needs to be based on science, as vaccinating them will push (say) 50-55yr olds further back.

I expect teachers will make the cut but probably behind other occupations.

 

And also Levi Bellfield

 

If the government wants to make re-opening schools such a policy priority, then teachers should surely be pretty high on the list so that they are given some level of reassurance?

It’s not just about levels of risk, it’s about ensuring that policy objectives are met.

 

Sorry, the lack of anything concrete coming in favour of giving teachers priority over other groups of key workers that also think they should be given priority demonstrates your argument is exceptionally thin. I've asked a number of times, but nothing comes back other than your usual slagging me off.

If you knew what I am actually doing in my role for the DfE then you would apologise for suggesting that I should be feeling any guilt. I am speaking with Head Teachers every day and doing everything I can to help. It also means that I hear more about what is really going on in schools than you do from the likes of Mary Bousted.

Hours-wise, I've been working over 12 hours each weekday since Christmas, and usually 10 hours a day through the autumn term. Not one penny in overtime, and the extra "flexi" hours that my long hours would normally earn just get lost, as I was owed the maximum of 100 hours since last April.

I am also owed about 35 days annual leave, having only taken 3 days since Christmas 2019. If I don't take 15 days by mid May (fat chance) then I will lose them as I can only carry over 20. And I don't even need to work as I could get by on my retirement financing, but I enjoy it, and so absolutely no complaining or whinging from me.

What have you done to get the children, particlularly those in disadavantaged circumstances or struggling in abusive households, to get back to school? You've been behind every step to keep them out!

By the way, I thought Mary Bousted was a terrible teacher when she was my step-daughter's Form Teacher at Whitmore High School in Harrow in the late 80's and I think she is a terrible representative for teaching now (just in case there was any doubt).

 

Yes, and that independent committee that decides on when the teachers need to get vaccinated, then I am sure they will recommend it to government. Until then the government could face justified criticism if they favoured teachers so they could get policies implemented rather than on saving lives. The ONS last stats on the subject suggested that teachers are not at more risk than other workers who are not working at home, and that teachers and children were not at significant increased risk in schools than if schools were closed.

 

This exactly. That’s why it’s not about ‘ifs’.

Quite frankly instead of giving it all these ‘ifs’ people solely need to consider that this is the only group of workers who cannot socially distance at work to at least some degree other than elite sportsmen and women.

The risk is obvious.

 

I didn’t ask you to update me on what you are doing at work. I’m really not interested

It’s clear that teachers are at risk and those two are not the only serious illnesses or deaths as you well know. You could easily have mentioned that if you wanted to weigh the evidence. You don’t, you just want to say ‘no’ to teachers because of your petty animosity.

You are in the wrong job if your first concern is teachers may get some tiny advantage. Have some respect for them.