Contradictory Views

Anyone who thought that we were going to keep and play players like Estupinan in the Championship, were always going to throw their toys out of the pram like moody toddlers when the inevitable happened.

"Oh but they in some photos..."
"Oh but they were featured in a tweet - now they can't be sold!"
"So what if clubs in European clubs are interested. They should stay END OF"

You can't reason with such people, and if you try, they just dig their heels in more, then they feel even more stupid/ emotional when the inevitable happens.

Watford FC isn't a prison sentence (even if it feels like one to us fans sometimes). If you keep unhappy players and force them to half-ass it in the Championship, then they'll either get injured or just generally be unmotivated, it will affect the rest of the squad, and thus performances.

We got relegated. We are not owned by (relatatively) rich owners. If a player wants to leave and big clubs are interested, they will go. If it's for an amount that the owners are happy with, that is better than if they are not happy with it. If the valuation doesn't match the fans expectations, so what? We all want to see players who are wanted by major European clubs, but opt to instead play for us in the Championship. But for the majority of level headed fans, that is when reality sets in.

 

I have to say, I have mixed views.

Certainly, the fact that we have a list of up to 17 mercenary shitbags on the payroll who can’t/won’t play for us, is nobody’s fault but the owners’. Many of us have pointed out that our recruitment policy doesn’t attract players of any character and we are seeing this born out now that these same players got our team relegated, but now think they are too good for it.

I am, however, not bothered by their exclusion as a fact on its own. If Dawson, Deeney or Pereyra has shown their cards, then I’d rather watch Cleverley, JP and Wilmott play. Some of our players have more to learn and are far from the finished article, but still preferable to disinterested prostitutes.

I also like the cut of Ivic’s jib. I think he’s a good coach based on the little we’ve seen of him so far. Hopefully he’s the man to take us forward, but with a one year contract and our club policy of treating the role of coach with such disinterest, probably not.

However, the handling of things by the club has been about as bad as it can get for a long, long time now.

The mistakes which saw us relegated were many and painfully obvious to many of us plebeian fans.

The sacking of Pearson with two games to go was disgraceful. Totally exemplified the basket case of a club we have become. Sure people make excuses. Maybe Pearson was racist or homophobic or used the wrong pronouns for one of the players....

Once relegation was confirmed, we finally got that statement from the club ‘lessons will be learned’ blah blah. Then, over the summer, a player we have signed decided he doesn’t want to play for us. Unveiled and still on our website whilst we pretend he’s ours, but he is turning out for Marseilles. Then a striker we had been hoping would return from loan and strengthen area which has been weak for us for three seasons and contributed to relegation, is loaned straight out again.

Then we have the ongoing confusion about exactly what our aims are and what our squad is.

Plus Giraldi seems to have been given a new title but still insinuates himself into first team matters.

Over half the senior players excluded. Surely some should have been gotten rid of by now. Surely some of this should be sorted already.

‘Oh but the window hasn’t slammed shut yet’ yes but we are playing games. Crucial points are up for grabs and we are fighting for them with a squad which is, frankly pathetic if promotion is even a hope, let alone an expectation.

Sure, the owners could prove me dead wrong over the next 3 weeks. Maybe they sell Suarez, Estupinan, Capoue, Hughes and the other gash we have stinking up our wage bill and somehow sign 10 new players of genuine quality. Maybe Giraldi will be packed off to the Gulag where he belongs. Maybe all the behind scenes mitigations that some of you have hypothesised for the bizarre behaviour of our club is all bang on and we shouldn’t blame anyone.

But I doubt it. Judging by what’s on show and what we can see, relegation was just the beginning. Our club is spiralling in free fall mode T the moment with seemingly no strategy beyond selling anyone for whatever we can raise and cobbling together a side which can make up the numbers.

The Pozzos ‘saved us’ but it’s clear to me that we’re not far off where we were when they took over and could even end up worse off in the not too distant future.

 

We'll be fine.

Those players have simply expressed an interest in playing at a higher level and we are being nice enough to let them put their feet up. If anything, we should be proud.

Just think about that forth stand if you ever feel down or mystified with the club's direction. That's the real victory for our club.

We'll be signing lots of players soon, we just need the money from the Estupinan transfer to clear.

 

This is bang on. Win and you can pretty much get away with anything. People complain about dire football, all the time, but never after a win. Same with all the other issues. Whilst you win they are all trivial but as soon as you start losing, they come to the fore more and more.

The issues that saw us relegated were all there for 2-3 seasons, but most people ignored them because we were still doing ok. Even in the eventuality it was pretty damn hard to go down. We had to be consistently poor so often and to spurn so many opportunities to save ourselves, it really took quite some achieving.

The same will be true this season. Be there or thereabouts and the clappers will still see stars. ‘Once our 11 new free signings gel we will be electrifying.’

Once we lose 3 in a row, however the weakness of our squad and the terrible window we are having will no longer be a theory, but a reality to many. Then the ‘this is bloody ridiculous’ type mutterings will commence , which is about as close to a full on protest as Watford fans get.

 

The sad thing right now is we are picking our side from a position of weakness, not a position of strength.

Ivic isn’t able to chose his side wondering who to leave out, he’s choosing it wondering who on earth he can find to play.

Anybody fit, able and willing is just about guaranteed a starting place.

After five years of feeding off the big table financially and then having seven weeks since our relegation was confirmed, I find that fairly incompetent.

 

When does the window "slam shut?"
I'll answer then but the sooner some of our experienced nit wits beggar off the better.

 

I'm not sure that the toxic mercenary nature of our players can be blamed more than a fraction on our owners. I'd say football at the moment breeds this, player power they call it. There's too much money in the game from tv deals and the players are paid so much they almost become celebrities before they become footballers. It's always been the case of course that relegated clubs lose their better players, but the toxic mentality of the modern player runs deeply into every premier league club.

 

See, this I disagree with, vehemently. The likes of Suarez and Estupinan exemplify it perfectly. Why would they be attracted to a promotion push with Watford? Despite being on our books for years, they’ve probably only been here 5 weeks. They don’t even know where Watford really is.

Del, Pereyra, Doucoure were all probably promised moves within 2 years and expected to use WFC, purely as a shop window.

Then you have players like Success and Peneranda who have never had any roots at any club in their young careers. They don’t give a toss.

Add in the other players from the network, shipped in on loan or permanents (Pussetto, Siarelto, Perica) who probably only expect to be heard for a year or so and it’s easy to see why the club holds no value to most of our players.

3 or 4 mercenary want away’s would be normal fare for a club our size after relegation and with hopes to bounce back. The fact that it’s most of the club shows that we are a sinking ship with more rats than crew.

 

Add in players like Sarr and JP who have probably also been told that they should expect to honour about 2 years of their contracts before moving on.

 

Fixed

 

Suarez and Pervis would have bought into prooving themselves on loan, then coming to Watford in the premier league. You can't simply ignore the fact we are now in the championship as it changes their outlook. The stupid thing is we quite possibly wouldnt give them a crack if we were still in the premier league! Which I admit is a daft scenario. Maybe these two would have been the first to go through that routine and prosper rather than the Peneranda "lose your potential and ruin your career in watford reserves" variant.

I think 18 months back, if you called for more Cathcarts and Cleverleys rather than Richarlisons and Pereryas, there plenty on here who would laugh at you. Even our long serving talisman captain doesn't want to stick about.

 

To add a small point around the players that seem likely to depart - I don’t blame them for wanting to leave. I blame the owner for being so asleep at the wheel last season, that we now have a club they don’t want to play for. The onus is on him, not them. They were sold the PL dream and have arrived in pergatory.

And the communication from the club to the fans is either a total mess, or non-existent. With no fans in stadiums and being in the league below, the club need to keep fans invested as much as ever - and they are doing the opposite. They are taking fans thoughts and opinions for granted.

 

But as 12,000 ST holders have paid the £20 ‘save my seat’ fee, why does anyone think the owners feel the fans need mollifying at all.

 

Stop worrying. This season will be cancelled in the New Year, or at least postponed to continue sometime in 2022. Who knows what will happen to many clubs and players in that interim.

 

RE point number 3, as a club like Watford very few players 'want' to play for you. I think people mis-underestimate how little footballers care about the club they're at. 90% of the ones I've worked with/got to know view it as a job and would love to play for a top 4 team/big name team, other than that they just go where the money takes them. Football isn't like it was in the 90's anymore...

For example, I player I worked with last year had come from the academy at his club and been there 10+ years. His contract was up at the end of last season and he moved to the club that offered him the most money, despite his team being desperate to keep him.

Obviously you get exceptions, but i'd say 85-90% of players are just there for the money.

 

They would have to. Until January, anyway.

 

The only communication we've had is sorry we boobed up but trust us as we have the answers.
The trouble I have is that I no longer trust them.
Silva-it is a matter of honour and not a monetary thing.Shortly later we accept £4M.
The numerous signings who never make it to the UK let alone WD18.
The no idea who cost what and what our finances actually are-all indications are that we are broke but are we?
Duxbury-sorry but what does he actually contribute?He is the typical talking suit who says very little/nothing.He is being paid six figures of OUR money.
The refusal to pay the agreed FA Cup Final bonuses-we all saw how this affected the squad.
The wage deferral last season-have we now paid this?If not when is it due?
Why don't all the players have relegation clauses?Who is responsible for this?
Why is the Hive sound so LOW?

Unless the lines of communication vastly improve we cannot all pull in the same direction.You cannot continue to alienate your customers and expect to get away with it.
You need us more in the Championship than you do in the PL.

 

Excellent post

 

Maybe this is the plan. Cut back to u23's and a few old players only. Wage bill reduced to peanuts. Covid 19 closes down football again. 23 sides go bust, 12 premier league sides go bust and we end up a top 10 premier league team with Jerome Sinclair getting an England call up.

 

This is a scenario that a lot of clubs should be seriously concerned about, because it's a very real possibility.

It's all well and good betting everything on having a good season, but what is a risky move during normal times becomes downright suicidal if you're sitting under the Sword of Damocles.

 

Unfortunately I think you maybe correct .
At the very minimum clubs going under -10 point deductions etc

 

Nicely put, but obvious.

 

Who's Damocles? Can he play left back?

 

Most of that list just reflects modern football. It’s hardly unique to Watford.

 

Greek. Played under Ivic at PAOK. Sharp incisive asset.

 

The season will continue, but l guess that fans will be banned from the grounds until August/September 2021 at the earliest.
This virus is not going to go away. The massive majority of us will suffer hardly any effect from it. A decision will have to be made. Do we have a zero economy, millions unemployed, a life style/Stasi control as in Communist Eastern Bloc and a recession not seen since the 30's OR we let it ride with limited restrictions of our rights. No one will say what we all think deep down. It's about the future generations.
Life has to move on and we let nature take its course.

 

And available on a free

 

I think this is half the problem. A lot people on here just hate modern football.

 

Nah, plays up top.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/02/stu...-mask-associated-with-psychopathy-traits.html

 

Interesting, but mostly waffle. Firstly, what about our rights? The definition of APD is a touch far fetched and does not relate to the majority of us at all.
I would go along with the mask wearing idea, That not so bad,but we must let the economy grow. Let nature take its course. You don't water a dead or dying tree.
Enough of the restrictions. No mask, then you don't get to do things. I concede to that.
I think most of that article is BS. It's up to you to believe it or not.
Thanks all the same.

 

This is kind of a case in point though - you clearly put yourself in the bracket of level headed fans just because you hold a different opinion to others. I certainly wouldn’t label you ‘stupid’ for doing that...

But it does appear to be those who claim to be ‘realists’ who are trying to be most divisive with their posts?

I think the issue with the club posting pictures of the two new South American’s is it highlights the continued skewed communication coming out of the club - as I have said, I don’t really think many (if any) looked at those media shots and thought ‘they are definitely staying...’(except maybe the more younger fans on Twitter) - it seems a bit disingenuous to suggest people have said that on here. It appears to me that most would have looked at the photos/videos, and allowed themselves to think ‘well, at least they are here - but what a risky move by the club to publicise it so much...’ - and that is exactly how it has proved.

I genuinely think the two sides of the debate would come together if the club were just clear and transparent with fans. Mixed messages and vague statements of ambition don’t really cut it and have divided the fanbase even more - and that really wasn’t needed after last season. The club need everyone to unite behind a common goal and belief - but they are watching on as everything becomes even more fractured.

 

We were getting used to the PL and because the Pozzos pressed the self destruct button we are back in this league. Yes it's there club to do with it what they want, but let's not pity them or put anymore faith in them. You have to question such owners who ignored the obvious areas where the team desperately needed strengthening and because they didn't we are where we are now. Probably now is the best we will get for the next 7 to 10 years. Not very exciting is it?