Chelsea vs Watford FC - 21/10/2017

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by V Crabro, Oct 7, 2017.

  1. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Agree. Didn’t impact the game but the referee made himself look like an absolute imbecile by treating identical offences by Watford and Chelsea players differently. It was absolutely laughable and brings his other marginal decisions directly into question.
     
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  2. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    And quite how Watson was brought on over Capoue is beyond me. The player has served us well but is simply no longer up to the task.
     
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  3. Pob

    Pob Reservist

    The atmosphere was great and despite the undeserved loss it was a good away day that I came away from happy at the performance and confident for the future. Although I still can't stop imagining the league table if we had won and how we would be feeling now.

    My security check was good natured and I think they doubled up on bag checks from a counter terrorist perspective which I don't begrudge.

    Yes indeed. I think a number of their "fans" are football tourists without any real affiliation. I came away with a confusing mixture of pity and contempt for them at the hollowness of their experience of football.
     
    Banjo likes this.
  4. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Rich @ WBA.
     
    Malteser likes this.
  5. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Yeah I thought that when it was happening live.
     
  6. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    In other news today:- Lloyd Doyley made his first start in a 2-0 home win for Hemel Hempstead V Oxford City!

    (Not relevant to this thread but I thought fans may be interested)
     
  7. kVA

    kVA Reservist

    I agree. He hasn’t played for 12? 18? Months and he should have played more last season. Today he looked well off the pace. I was a big fan but he wasn’t near the player when shutting down couldnt get a foot in or intercept a pass.
     
  8. Irishorn

    Irishorn Gael Force

    It was so deeply and gut wrenchingly frustrating to lose that game that it will have the inevitable consequence of emotions running high and some fans lashing out, but even the most cynical of Watford fans cannot help but be proud of the performance today, despite the result. I usually despise moral victories, however, this was one that was more bearable because it showed me that we are a team capable of being up there with the best and richest.
     
  9. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Most cliché riddled post eva.
     
  10. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    The Deeney/Watson substitution was a weird one. Very few fans would contemplate taking the one out and out striker off, because experience tells us what happens when we retreat. I also can't remember Deeney being substituted ever by previous managers. Again, you just wouldn't take the captain off, particularly one who is so useful when defending.

    I can only assume Watson had been heavily briefed for a role before the game to frustrate Chelsea possession. It didn't work and Silva employed it way too early in the game. I don't think he would have done that with us dominating against a lesser team. It's not the first time Chelsea have found another gear against us, so maybe it would have happened anyway, but it did seem to change the game.
     
    Banjo likes this.
  11. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Wrong formation, wrong subs.
     
  12. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I see Silva getting plenty of stick for the substitution, but it wasn't necessarily the wrong thing to do tactically wise. The subsequent performance from Watson made it look like a poor substitution, but had we swapped Deeney for Chalobah, for example, I doubt anyone would have been questioning taking off a striker for a DMF.

    However, Silva does know the form and current ability of Watson, so you can question why he thought he'd be good enough to play yesterday, but the tactical switch itself was probably an ok thing to do.
     
    Glenhorn likes this.
  13. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    Played Chelsea off the park at times and if we'd gone 3-1 up we would have won that. If Arsenal had gone 2-0 up last week they'd have won that as well. Sh*t happens.

    We're mixing it with the big boys and I'm loving it.
     
  14. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    I would've done. Our best form of defence was attack in that game with Richarlison on the wing and we gave it up.
    In fact it should be every game coz we need Richarlison creating not as a no 9 and defending is our weakest asset.
     
  15. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    A restless night:every time I shut my eyes I saw Chas missing the two chances.

    Still frustrated that we didn't get a point at the least but hugely excited by our team.

    Great cross from Britos for the Chas header.
     
    RookeryDad likes this.
  16. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Moss needs to be sent down a division. Penalizes Femenia and fair enough by the letter of the law. Hazard does the same thing. Not a peep. We take a free kick from the wrong spot. Fair enough it gets moved back. They do the same thing once more not a peep. I honestly think Doucoure has an outside chance of making the French senior side soon. He has represented them at all age levels. Sadly Pereyra is very unlikely to be in Russia. Sampaoli has not even mentioned him when discussing players and his unfortunate knee issues persist. Richarlison is one for the selecao in the future. But we definitely have three players near enough world class in the team. Silva has also turned players who were struggling under Mazzari around. Holebas is becoming the player he was at Roma and look at Mariappa. Looks hardly out of place.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  17. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    I can only think it is a good thing that I am pissed off we lost. Recently, especially away against the likes of Chelsea, it always seemed a case of keeping it tight and hoping not to get too badly hammered. We should have absolutely battered them yesterday. Richarlison will learn, sometimes do the simple stuff and you will score. Pretty much only needed to block the cross with his left foot or allow the ball onto his head and we are 3-1, 4-1 up.

    As for the sub. Yep, it looks like an error, but as with the formation, you can learn a lot from that. If we had carried on resgardless we very much may still have lost as Chelsea were clearly getting on top with their subs. I actually think we looked a lot better this week with 343 so we now have a solid 343 or 4231 at our disposal. Can see a bit of rotating with those.

    Only issue with 343 is Chelsea were having bags of space down their right and got way too many crosses in from that side. Seemed to very much target it as a weak area for us which it proved to be for 3 of the goals (even if one was off a ludicrous corner decision). Holebas seemed to get a bit overrun.

    Whole team played really well and just dropped off in the last 20. Now, the challenge will be when Stoke park the bus next week. They almost certainly will be looking to nick it 1-0 and that will present a whole different obstacle.

    Already the most fun season I had ever hoped for since getting promoted.
     
    RookeryDad likes this.
  18. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    Hope Silva realises Watford teams have never been able to sit back and defend a lead

    Wrong sub yesterday which cost us the game
     
  19. Sahorn

    Sahorn Reservist

    The Shed End an interesting read.

    Their fickle fans go from pre match nerves and speculation on Conte' s future to relief on first goal to 'Conte should walk/go/lost dressing room' /individual players are cr@p/ we're being overrun by f###ing Watford ffs' when they were 2-1 down, Deeney bossing them/ we could be losing 4/5-1 to f###ing Watford again/season over/ the next 20 minutes is season defining
    to relief can we hold out for a point/we're lucky
    to f##k me how are we winning this but Watford score in the last 5
    to I can't believe this/ Conte good subs chanting his name we could do worse than Silva when Conte does go/ Watford played some good stuff but we were the better team apart from 15 minutes/ we can overtake Utd and back to positives

    An interesting rollercoaster of bull/shut extreme emotions and biased one sided wild statements that you would never find in our sensible shoutbox :D
     
    Moose likes this.
  20. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Referees are not 'biased'. Why do we get this time after time? The lino gave the corner that led up to their first goal. A mistake. After that they got some decisions they shouldn't have. So did we. I thought the ref was very fair on both Richy and Hazard. Sure, Hazard should have been booked for kicking the ball away, as Femenia was, but the ref had his back turned at the time. If their fans won't give the ball back then can't the stewards lift them? What the f.ck is their purpose?

    All football fans would seem to be incapable of distinguishing being partisan themselves and then claiming bias when they have to deal with objectivity. It's pathetic really. The only 'bias' is that which flows down from the terraces. Always the victims.

    We did throw that game away though. The turning point was Richy's missed header. That goes in and 3-1 and we would have won. I don't get the Deeney/Watson sub. either. Deeney/Gray surely. And Watson looked out of his depth. I agree with all that's been said on that.

    As for the Chelski? Bunch of self-entitled, robber-baron worshipping, out-of-town, glory hunting canutes who couldn't raise a shout if their balls were being gnawed by a sabre-toothed-tiger.

    I really can't stand them. Can you tell?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
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  21. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Should be renamed the Dead End. Bunch of plastics and tourists. I can just about stomach where Manchester United and Liverpool and indeed Arsenal are given that they have been formed out of great management in the past ie Shankley/Paisley/ Busby/ Chapman but Manchester City and Chelsea are only where they are because of financial doping. As usual football fans show their fickleness. Once upon a time Manchester City fans would moan and groan about how United won the league through finance but two decades later they are spending enormous sums to buy silverware. And strangely not a peep about it. No troubled consciences.
     
  22. NorwegianOrn

    NorwegianOrn Academy Graduate

    We surely lacked Capoue's height yesterday.
     
  23. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    As was Holebas banging on about it with the lino again afterwards and getting himself booked. Is he going for the record again? What is the point? The decision (albeit a bad one) had been made. Marco needs to have a strong word.
     
  24. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    And 'what is up' with Okaka?
     
  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    I did read a while back Silva questioned Hughes work rate in training but that was some time ago...

    As for Okaka - no idea!

    Almost feel he must have either had a massive falling out or got some clause in his contract about a new deal if he plays x number of games which the club don't want to enforce.
     
  26. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Of course he was biased. Everyone could see that, even the neutral BBC Radio 5 Live were saying he was not being consistent with his decision making and were inferring Watford were getting a lot of poor decisions throughout the game.

    You are wrong about the corner. The linesman didn't actually signal, he left it to the referee, who of course gave it Chelsea's way. It was clear Hazard kicked the ball away, and the Chelsea fans actually kept the ball for a while. The referee even appeared to receive some instruction on his earpiece but elected to do nothing. The Watford players surrounded him to point out what had happened and he still chose to ignore it.

    There was a clear second yellow card for Rudiger which he didn't give. Now he's either biased, wants to impress the following for the bigger side or scared to give correct decisions in fear of crowd reaction. Either way, he should not be officiating games like this. He has to be fair, consistent and honest. There were far too many incidents which created a clear pattern of what he was up to.

    I'm not sure why you would want to make excuses for Jon Moss' performance yesterday, but a lot of people saw it, and even the neutrals were seeing it.

    We had the same problem with Anthony Taylor on two occasions. We all know when we get a fair referee, and we all know when we've had one that's been poor. Neil Swarbrick was excellent last week against Arsenal, not because of the penalty, but his general overall display was even and fair.

    Last week, Ozil could have scored to make it 2-0 and game over. His chance was offside, but I would not have viewed the referee any differently. His linesman missed a clear offside, not Swarbrick.

    This season, I've seen a lot of favouritism, not just against Watford, but other smaller clubs when they play bigger sides. There are a few referees that should not be operating at this elite level, but when they side with the top teams consistently, they will always get good feed back from top managers. This carries weight, and maybe why nothing gets done about it. We saw it against Arsenal. There was nothing wrong with the penalty decision, but because Wenger moans about it, and a lot of scribes support Arsenal, there is a trial by media, which ensures the incident goes to the review panel.

    If you give a smaller club an apparent controversial decision against a bigger side, all hell breaks lose and it's discussed endlessly. When it happens the other way around it's just a footnote and no one talks about it. I believe this is why some referees act this way. They want to keep out of the spotlight. Give the bigger sides a good deal and you will invariably get away without being scrutinised.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  27. Bore

    Bore Reservist

    Gutted, nuff said.
     
  28. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Anyone seen any outrage about Bernardo Silva's blatant dive that killed off Burnley? Mentioned on MOTD, without reference to a suspension, but that's all I've seen.
     
    Rozerhorn likes this.
  29. Annoying noises

    Annoying noises Academy Graduate

    I agree with much of what you say, but I don't think biased is the right word. Biased suggests he's going to the match intending to give Chelsea most of the calls. (Something which happens regularly when you watch kids football and the coach is reffing the match)

    Instead I think that some refs are weak minded and more likely to give decisions to the bigger teams. They're not doing it on purpose but subconsciously they hear the crowd, think of what the top mangers might say about decisions and decide in favour of the bigger club. Alex Ferguson was a master at having this affect on refs.
     
    põder likes this.
  30. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Exactly......nothing is said about it. Only a mention from Dyche.

    This is a big problem, not just referee but how the media report things. It's slanted and is all wrong. I'm still hearing rumblings about Richarlison's simulation even now.

    If the Man City penalty does not go to the review board, then there is something inherently unhealthy about the game right now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  31. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I agree, I'm not suggestion these referees hate Watford, but they are heavily influenced by keeping favour with the bigger side. They know any big decision against a top side would be magnified greatly, discussed all week and he'll be given a hard time. Give a decision against a smaller club and no one cares, apart from the followers of the club of course. I bet Swarbrick got tonnes of abuse last week, for actually making the correct decision. No doubt he'll think twice next time, which will be a huge shame and damages his own integrity if he allows that to happen.

    It's human nature to want to be given a lenient time. Some referees do not want this level of scrutiny and will consciously or subconsciously try to avoid it.

    We need strong referees who do not give a damn what decision they give, as long as it is correct.

    We need the media to be fair in their reporting and discuss EVERYTHING not just cherry pick incidents against bigger sides.

    It's a lot to ask, but until that happens, this type of thing will continue.
     
  32. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    We don't have world class defenders, I know, but they are still pretty good. Yesterday, 2 goals were down to poor Britos errors (hands up, his concentration left him at two vital moments). But their first was unstoppable following a corner that shouldn't have been. But Morata and Hazard barely got a sniff (probably worth £100m between them). And their three goalscorers cost Chelsea about £60m.

    Obviously, our goals conceded tally isn't that great taken in isolation, but that includes 6 v Man C, 4 v Chelsea, 1 v Arsenal and 3 v Liverpool. All those teams (believed top 6) have world class forwards worth absolutely £millions, and have had the benefit of working with world class coaches for some time.

    We will not play against these forwards and attacking midfielders every week. In our other 5 games this season, against lesser opposition, we conceded only 3 goals and remain unbeaten.

    Let's not be too harsh on our defence. And, arguably, our best CB's are out injured.

    They are good enough to survive against the lesser teams and when we are on the front foot, but they are not good enough to survive onslaughts by the top class opposition.. Yesterday we were exposed as we sat back, following misses by a 20 year old winger from 1000's of miles away, who we are relying on far too much to deliver the goods, every time.

    We need a proper goalscorer.

    Yes, it is great to have someone like Deeney to rough up fragile defences like Arsenal's, but he doesn't do it often. A bit of link play now and again, winning the odd header and scoring the odd penalty, just is not good enough. We need someone who would be where Richarlison was yesterday with those missed chances, sniffing out opportunities, creating space, capitalising on defensive mistakes, banging in the chances.

    If only we had spent a bit more to get Gabbiadini than we did to get Gray. As he is the sort of player we need, and he would flourish in our side with the opportunities provided by those around him.
     
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  33. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    If that had been an Arsenal player going down like Richarlison did last week would you have said the sane thing ?

    Like last week it seems people who had seen the incident later didn't think it was a dive whereas the reaction straight away had the alternative view.

    Guess that just shows the trouble with such incidents - unless it's totally clear cut then the issue will keep causing debate.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2017
  34. Meh!

    Meh! Pre-Dictator

    Looking forward to seeing how the team react v Stoke now who are pants this season so far.

    Hopefully this will gee them up and we won't go in to it too complacent.

    Can see us battering a team(s) this season and no reason to think it won't be stoke, as long as we approach it right.
     
  35. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Some very good points made. I agree most of the damage has been caused by top 6 clubs, but that doesn't take away we constantly made basic errors from crosses, and we are particularly poor at defending corners. This has to be down to personnel rather than coaching, as we've had this problem ever since we were promoted, although QSF did have an excellent defensive record with 30 goals conceded from his first 29 games. After that it went pear-shaped and has been ever since.

    We desperately need a centre half in January, one that is at the level or better than Prodl.

    I also agree with you regarding the central striker. Deeney and Gray can do a job, but are not really the answer. I've been disappointed with Gray and I think he's not suited for the central striker role. Burnley played him wide right most of the time, and he was decent for them in that position, but he struggled struggled centrally. I'm surprised we paid so much for him and I think it is probably a bit of a mistake if we're honest.

    Deeney is not the player he was two years ago. He was unfit all last season, but I think he's fitter this year although seems to have lost a yard of pace. A great option from the bench, but I'm not sure he can do it as a starter anymore. Maybe Deeney and Gray in a two would work, but either in isolation just doesn't quite cut it as EPL level.

    We've been able to overcome this problem with the form of Richarlison and Carrillo. They've stretched teams, which has allowed the midfield to contribute. Of our 15 goals 7 have come from midfield or defence. Only 3 goals coming from a central striker.
     

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