Ched Evans

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by Rostrons Red Card, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    Her family are wealthy, not sure if they are the type to bankroll their kids or not. Do I need to put a smiley after every tongue in cheek post?
     
  2. fan

    fan slow toaster

    do i?
     
  3. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    I think, as fan has alluded to, that she comes from a wealthy background (as has been mentioned on this thread, I believe her father had offered to recompense Oldham any money lost if sponsors withdrew in response to employing Evans).

    PO, I hear what you're saying but, still, forgiving someone an affair - or even a one night stand with someone picked up in a bar/club, etc - is very different from standing by someone who has turned up at a hotel with the sole intention of shagging someone who is drunk (is already there with someone else), & who brings along mates who film it through the window.
     
  4. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    TBH I think the latter would be easier to forgive. Public embarassment aside, it's pretty obvious that he had no intention of getting into a relationship with the woman whereas a full on affair implies some level of emotional intimacy. I would think that's far harder to forgive.

    Not that I ever intend to find out on either count, though!
     
  5. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    Ha - good! Nor would I personally forgive Mr HH either. But the reason I think the latter is worse is the fact that - rape or not rape - for me, that behaviour reflects a horrible attitude towards the woman as a 'piece of meat'.
     
  6. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    And slappers don't exist? ... It's clear you think the "victim" can do no wrong but I can tell you I've had my fair share of drunken women try to get into my pants - something about alcohol making them horny and uninhibited and they don't need to be legless either.

    I pity your sheltered upbringing (that or you're as ugly as sin) - you obviously missed all the best bits.
     
  7. PhilippineOrn

    PhilippineOrn First Team

    Being drunk and trying to get into your pants is the best bits? I won't talk for HH but my guess is, if that's the case, she can be grateful for a sheltered upbringing.

    Let me guess - you can tell when your women have an orgasm. It's when they drop their kebab.
     
  8. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    You mean women can orgasm? ..... amazing!

    Joking aside ... Why should young single women be frowned upon for sowing their wild oats while young men get treated like heroes? Could it just be a perceived shame that has you all jumping to her defence?

    I've always treated all women with respect and that's probably why I was so popular with them as a young man, and not [necessarily] because of the size of my tackle. But judge a real woman at your peril.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
  9. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    So he's apologised. To his 'victim' too. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary, it would seem reasonable to accept his explanation that it has been late in coming due to legal advice that he should keep quiet up until now. It seems strange though.The thing that's changed is that the Oldham contract's fallen through. Well, apologising in advance of negotiations with Oldham would surely have helped his cause in securing a contract there rather than after the event. What hasn't changed is that his case is still in the appeal process. So the timing seems strange. In what way does making an apology now not affect his appeal whereas it would have done if he'd made it earlier when it could have had a beneficial effect on his chances with Oldham?

    In addition, his apology still doesn't include recognition of what happened to Jessica Ennis as being entirely wrong too. He could have done that at any time and got some brownie points to help him. And it's still notable by its absence. Why? It does seem to me that his 'team' are missing a number of tricks maybe because, as lawyers, they're entirely focussed on the legal case and not concerned at all about helping him get his job back. Surely both things could run in tandem.

    Currently the mob seem to be winning. I say currently because I don't see this going away yet. Another club will appear over the horizon with the balls to carry through at some point. If it's a foreign one it would be good to see the probation service use a bit of imagination rather than continue to trot out their bog-standard line. When the legal process has been exhasted one way or another there will be a book deal too. It will sell millions and make millions. Good. That's unless Waterstone's staff are issued with death and rape threats.

    What's most dangerous in all this is that the perception that the mob will win out will, in itself, increase the chances of the mob getting more involved in all and sundry in future. In what way, despite the obvious difference in scale, is making death and rape threats to the staff of Oldham Athletic and their families, different from shooting 10 journalists dead in Paris? OK, one involves real violence whereas the other is a threat of it. But they're both using bullying and violence, or the threat of it, to inflict their will in defiance of the law of the land (it's not the probation service saying he can't play for Oldham). So quantitatively different yes, but qualitatively? I think not.

    P.S. If anyone wonders shy I keep using 'victim' rather than victim, it's because I doubt whether the 'victim' has been in any way traumatized at all, either emotionally or physically (well obviously not physically), by events in the hotel room. It was part of her lifestyle. She has been traumatized by being outed and subsequently harassed ever since. But others inflicted that upon her, not Evans. In addition, what exactly is wrong with his support website? Apart from using the cctv footage of the hotel foyer, which might have had some sort of copyright attached and permission to use it wasn't obtained, then the site seems entirely even-handed to me seeing as he's trying to prove his innocence. It isn't abusive to his 'victim' at all as some have claimed.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2015
  10. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Agreed. That's the worst aspect of it all to my mind too.
     
  11. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    Naah. Sounds like you must have been using the 'banana crotch' technique to me.
     
  12. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    It is interesting that what you read in my posts isn't what I think I've written at all. I don't recall saying anywhere that the woman in question could do no wrong. And, yes, I must have had a very sheltered upbringing because I've never been in a hotel room with someone only to have their mate turn up midway through to join in while other mates film it at the window. Oh and thank you for your kind words of concern but, rest assured, that is the first time I have been referred to as 'ugly as sin'.
     
  13. jon_e_lee

    jon_e_lee Old Git!

    You look quite sleek in your profile pic!
     
  14. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    I agree, although it is interesting that this point is being made by someone who refers to men who do that as 'lads' and women as 'slappers'
     
  15. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    just keeping with society
     
  16. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    From popb1tch:

     
  17. Shakespearo

    Shakespearo Reservist

    Just because Oldham Athletic said "yes" doesn't mean that the violence-threatening mob will allow that answer to be given.
     
  18. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    There is a joke about dogs and ruff in here somewhere, but I'm not quite brave enough to make it.
     
  19. PotGuy

    PotGuy Forum Fetishist

    Ridiculous.
     
  20. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Criticism of Steve Bruce popping up, but looking at his comments I don't see why people are getting their panties in a wad:

    Nothing incendiary in those thoughts whatsoever.
     
  21. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Surely now everyone should just wait to see what the outcome of the appeal is..

    Gordon Taylor and Steve Bruce might well be right...then again if Evans is found guilty a 2nd time is that the end of his career?
     
  22. He's served his time and been released and should now be allowed to go about his own business and that included being allowed to be a footballer without being hounded by idiots

    If there is an moral objection (and I'm not against one) it should be against the legal system that allows a rapist to walk free after 2.5 years

    Otherwise the concept of rehabilitation of any prisoner is worthless and we might as well lock them all up for life
     
  23. fan

    fan slow toaster

    he hasn't served his time has he? I thought he was out on license and had only 'served' half of it?
     
  24. Most prisoners only serve half of their time, its standard I believe for certain terms and types of crimes. He hasn't been treated any differently than any other prisoner.
     
  25. fan

    fan slow toaster

    he already lost his appeal though, ages ago, didn't he? the thing that is happening now is a review from an independent body that looks into miscarriages of justice, or so i thought?
     
  26. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    What Evans did is a slur on the term rape and the whole thing belittles genuine victims of this heinous crime. Immorality isn't rape and IMO it is that that he has been judged on. Twenty years ago the question couldn't arise, as consensual sex was simply consensual sex and nothing else.
     
  27. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    I have often thought that too. Evans didn't sentence himself so if the e-witchhunters feel he got off lightly, then they should direct their ire somewhere that matters.

    Quite.
     
  28. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    If you go back far enough, they probably burned the women that accused the men of it at the stake.
     
  29. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    It's not me questioning the sentence, I'm just pointing out there are differences in severity.
    But make no mistake, I still regard him innocent even under the newer laws. I've seen no proof, only conjecture and nothing towards probability either.
     
  30. HappyHornet24

    HappyHornet24 Crapster Staff Member

    A wise decision, Arakel ;)
     
  31. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    10 years of marriage taught me something! :D
     
  32. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    I think everyone's barking up the wrong tree (ha) about the verdict. All commentary keeps referring to the fact that Evans was found guilty because the 'victim' was too drunk to give consent. Incorrect. If that was the case then the jury would have found McDonald guilty too. The 'victim's' lack of sobriety is common to both the cases so it can't explain the difference between the two verdicts. What is different in the two cases is in how the 'victim' is approached. Well in McDonald's case it's actually the other way around because she approached him while waiting for a taxi and voluntarily goes to a hotel with him. She's pissed but the jury thinks that's a reasonable indication of consent being likely to have been given in the room. Evans however sneaks into the room with a sense of entitlement. He's at best cavalier around seeking consent and may have little idea of what it should look like at all. He can't approach a woman in that way and expect the jury to grant him any benefit of the doubt about consent being given. He wasn't bothered enough and didn't take it seriously. He didn't give the 'victim' the chance to say no.

    This is not surprising though given that young men are constantly bombarded with the suggestion that all young women are permanently on heat and gagging for it. So some will inevitably not understand what consent is all about. Especially when they're very well paid with a few bob in their pocket.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2015
  33. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    As you've said, McDonald was the one that actually pulled her and thus he was given the benefit of the doubt regarding implied consent.
    Now I'm not privvy to the details but they say she was up for it, she says she can't remember (what young lady would openly admit having enjoyed group sex) .... I just wonder what those conveniently scrubbed and therefore inadmissible texts and posts on facebook might have been able to tell us? It seems quite likely to me that she bragged to her mates about who she pulled, which I certainly wouldn't expect a victim to do (or an amnesia case for that matter).
    Too many people are imagining this girl in place of their own daughters or any other nicely behaved young lady. Unless they actually know her they shouldn't.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2015
  34. KelsoOrn

    KelsoOrn Squad Player

    I agree. I bet she did brag after the event. And some of her 'tweets' have now come to light according to the Evans website, it would seem, bizzarely, thanks to an inquisitive New York firefighter.

    That doesn't mean she set it up though or was aware they were footballers in advance. She was told that after the event, then bragged about it afterwards. That doesn't alter the verdict. I've never called her a victim anyway. Only the 'victim'. She's not been remotely traumatised by what happened in the room whatever it was. Only by being hounded since the guilty verdict.

    When I got involved in this thread I thought Jeez - there but the grace of God ... I suspect you feel the same way. However, when I thought about it some more, I realised it was actually reassuring that McDonald was found innocent. If he'd been found guilty then heaven help us all.

    Evans was daft to gain entry to the room without knocking. Both defendants were really stupid, especially McDonald, to go away and leave the 'victim' unconscious in the room. They knew she was pretty p.ssed, they knew she was in a strange room and critically, McDonald at least knew she'd lost her handbag. So buggering off and leaving her in the 'care' of the night porter was simply recklessly stupid, irresponsible and asking for trouble.

    So that reassures me. Been down the road with a woman in McDonald type circumstances? Yep. Once a serial offender. Ever entered a hotel room Evans style? Nope. Ever buggered off and left a woman in those hotel room circumstances? Nope.

    So I can sleep easy then.

    Ignore the dislike. It's pathetic.
     
  35. Godfather

    Godfather bricklayer extraordinaire

    All rapes have a victim, even if they were willing at the time. However, she is over the age of consent and I've seen nothing to say they plied her with drink or drugs and video evidence would seem to show she had sobered up considerably before the 'rape' took place.

    The two lads attitude stinks, of that I'm certain and their lack of compassion deserves much scorn but it's just not enough IMO and by quite a long way, guilt still has to be proven in this country. I wasn't certain but if she has been bragging the jury should have been aware of it and I have to ask if she actually revealed it in court?
     

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