Bury

Discussion in 'General Football & Other Sport' started by UEA_Hornet, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Bury seem to be sinking quickly:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49213628

    Lots of #f*cktheEFL hashtags on Twitter amid loads of misunderstanding about what the fit and proper persons test actually is. People seem to think it’s an all-powerful magic wand of a vetting service. It’s not but that doesn’t stop the morons banging on like it is.

    Plus, a Bassini-esque statement/rant from Bury’s owner tonight:

    https://www.buryfc.co.uk/news/2019/...ter-accrington-stanley-game-postponed-by-efl/

    It’s got capital letters, bold print and even a there/their mistake. Presumably written and published on the fly by the man himself.
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  2. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Reservist

    I really feel for both Bury and Bolton. This was nearly us a few years back. No football club is evet totally safe from collapse.

    Even Abi Dahbi Citee might fold if the oil drys up. I really support fan nade sides. Bought out by supporters clubs and startibg from scratch. AFC Wimbeldon the prime example. Anyone remember. ..

    Chester City FC
    Halifax Town
    Rushden n Diamonds
     
  3. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    I remember when they got promoted in 1997 at the Vic..

    Seems like under the old owner they overspent to achieve promotion and the new guy hasn't got any money..
     
  4. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Yes, plenty more to add to that list too, Maidstone, Scarborough, Darlington just off the top of my head.
    It's looking bleak. If the cavalry were coming, they'd be here by now.
     
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Whilst we were in real trouble, I don’t think our situation can be compared to either Bury or Bolton. Both of them have a squad with numbers you can count on one hand and the ones who remain hadn’t been paid in 4 months. We were never close to having games postponed because we couldn’t guarantee fans safety etc.

    But that doesn’t take away from the ridiculousness of the situation!
     
    hatterhater and SkylaRose like this.
  6. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    They have ex WFC connections their new manager is Paul Wilkinson (who is yet to manage a game) and player Adam Thompson , hopefully they will survive!
     
  7. I Blame Bassett

    I Blame Bassett Squad Player

    Just a coincidence that Gordon Taylor played for both Bury and Bolton?
    Sooner or later a league club will fold,sad but inevitable.
     
  8. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

    With a name like Bury, what did you expect!!
     
  9. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    I can't see how anyone would ever buy a small club like Bury and hope to make money from it. Given where they are financially, if they have no local wealthy fan, I think they are as good as gone.
     
  10. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Looks like the end game is near for Bury. .

    Another 2 games postponed and a 23rd August deadline given to provide funds for a possible future .
     
  11. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Lose Bury, gain Salford.
     
  12. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Some what ironic the Neville brothers are from Bury - and their Mum works for them .
     
  13. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Yes that feels so wrong. Salford paying players more that Scottish premier league side last year when they were non league, and Bury, a league club for 100+ years.
     
    Sahorn likes this.
  14. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Or a celebration of creative destruction.

    The black dog of sentiment can hang heavy over sport, especially working class team sport.

    How many watch Bury?

    Or Maidstone?

    Or Scarborough, or the others?

    It’s not many & not enough. With unsustainable economics, small clubs are an incompetent or rogue away from closure.

    It’s surprising how few do go bust.

    Salford is patently a noxious vanity project. The class of 92 are too thick to coach & too ugly to pundit so they have to be owners.

    But, before this week, how many of us knew any of the Bury players, the manager, even, really, where Bury was on the map?

    If Bury are Spangles, is that wrong?

    It does me admire the more what AFC Wimbledon did.

    Restarting at level 101, the fans necessitated that they get back to where they were, & they almost have.
     
  15. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Any club, no matter what size, can be run economically. You know you will never make much money from running a club like Bury so don't go into it expecting to. A small club with small gates and a small income, so you cut your cloth accordingly. They were always going to be a div 4 club with the occasional trip to Div 3 and the risk of a drop to the conference. They were in financial trouble a few seasons back and I was surprised to see they went on a mini spending spree 2-3 seasons ago with many new players. I wasn't sure how they could afford that, and it turns out they couldn't. The guy who now owns them, Dale(?), is clearly a fool. How can you buy a club and then 6(?) weeks later claim that the finances were worse than you thought ?? You're not buying a second hand "sold as seen" car. You do your due diligence. You have your Sale & purchase contract protection against "undisclosed surprises". He clearly just bought it because it was cheap without troubling a brain cell with any checks. What the hell was he expecting ?? Being a fan and seeing the club you've supported for years just "die" must be terrible.
     
  16. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Cant they just be relegated down to the bottom league? That's got to be better than total annihilation. Let the owner lose his dosh, sack all the staff whose wages they cant be afford to be paid. But why must the entire club be wiped from the face of the earth? I'm sure there'll be some semi pros who'll sign up for buttons*

    *disclaimer, I havent read a single word about this topic so apologies if I'm talking out my pristine anus.
     
  17. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Most clubs seem to be re born once they go under. Scarborough and Maidstone have certainly done this. I’m not sure the football league are doing enough to make sure new owners know exactly what state the club is in and do they have the funds to sort the issue. If they cannot prove this on a given date (Bassini) then they are taken out of the running. Both this fella at Bury and Bassini should not get these clubs in to the position they find themselves in
     
  18. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    On Bury's day of destiny, the politicians have started virtue signalling. The local MP, the sports minister and Andy Burnham all writing and asking the EFL to further extend the deadline given to Bury. They undoubtedly know it's a stupid idea to keep extending it but realise it won't play well with the voters if they don't make a show of trying.

    If politicians want to do something that would actually help, they could put introduce laws to govern the fit and proper person's test and reform the criteria for football club ownership to take it beyond the normal companies law stuff.

    Will they do that? Will they ****.
     
    CarlosKickaballs and Happy bunny like this.
  19. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    It seems Dale bought the club for £1, wants to maximise the sale price and is using emotional blackmail to push the price up until the final minute as desperate buyers try to convince him to sell. Worst case scenario for him is he loses £1 invested (assuming he's invested little/nothing since acquisition), and the best offer currently on the table if he fails to sell in time. I'm not sure what the real deadline is, as any buyer would surely need to complete DD before buying so not sure a sale could really go through today ? Will the FL allow them to retain their status based on an accepted offer from a financially viable buyer who hasn't yet completed on the sale ? I can't be arsed to read up and answer my own question.
     
  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    If they can prove a potential buyer is genuine and viable, they will be given 24-48hrs to push it through.

    The real issue (according to Dale) is that there was £1.7m of debt hidden by the previous owner. When paired the £1.6m the club needs as a minimum to get through the season as they are (likely more than that as they will need to sign more players), they need to find someone willing to put around £4m into buying the club, and that’s without any profit being made.

    Dale’s argument is the FL are punishing him and the club for the previous owners debts and mistakes. But that’s his fault for it doing Due Dilligance or having specialist accountants doing forensic analysis. Debt isn’t just written off because a new owner has come in - creditors may be more sympathetic to a new owner and work with them to find a solution, but by all accounts Dale has barely engaged with creditors because he’s adamant he’s not paying someone else’s debt. I can almost sympathise with that - but he acquired the debt with the club. The previous owner put his debt into the club and left it behind.

    It’s easy to say he only paid £1 so that’s what he should sell it for. But he needs to find someone with at least £4,000,001. On Bury FC which has shown little over the last decade of being a potentially profitable club.

    I’d almost say it’s worth letting them go to the wall - to be used as an example and lesson going forward to the FL of their own failings. But nothing would be learnt and the fans of Bury would be the only ones to suffer.
     
  21. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Mrs Neville resigned last week
     
  22. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    Quite. Surely it's within the gift of the EFL to do this unilaterally though. Make their own rules. Go beyond minimalist company law. Why would they have to wait for a political lead?
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
  23. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    One would hope it’s possible to do that. I’m becoming more convinced though that the uncomfortable truth is there are more football clubs around than there are people who are able to run them sensibly at that level - and be prepared to do so.
     
  24. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I think it's possible, although a slightly tricky line to tread as FIFA is opposed to any government interference in the administration of football. The EFL's biggest issue is it doesn't write the laws on company ownership, takeovers and the administration of companies in distress. It can't easily stop something the law allows.

    Plus obviously the EFL is just a collection of clubs. The owners of those clubs aren't going to write a set of rules which makes life too much harder for themselves.
     
  25. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Absolutely no excuse for Dale. They are his debts not the previous owners the minute he bought the club. He should have picked it up in DD and if he didn't he should have standard warranties in the S&P agreement that allow him to chase the seller for those non-disclosed liabilities. I think, from the little I know, he is just a chancer who saw he could buy an ailing club for £1, put no new money in, and sell it on at a profit. A bit like Petchey....
     
  26. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Reservist

    Good explanation, thanks.
    One of the problems with the 'fit and proper person' test is that it only applies to the acquisition of a club. There seems to be no mechanism to monitor the activities of an owner afterwards. There are many examples of owners looking to profit from the real estate connected with a club, e.g. it is suspected that Bassini is after the hotel at Bolton, hence his interest in them rather than Bury.
    I don't know a lot about company law but it seems that the current model, particularly for clubs lower down the pyramid, is not ideal and some of the models used in other countries should be considered.
     
  27. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

  28. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Utterly selfish and pathetic. "Don't pledge money to me, pledge it to the club" he says....a club that he of course owns 100%.....
    Sell the club and give it a chance to survive you selfish winker.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  29. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    It’s a hell of a Dragons Den pitch....

    “I’m coming here today to pitch my business Bury FC. In return for any money at all, I am offering 0% equity in my business. No questions please.” *passes bucket around*
     
    CleyHorn likes this.
  30. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Seen a few Bury fans this morning claiming Dale found a serious bidder this week willing to pay what’s needed - only to move the goalposts at the 11th hour and say the club owes him £7.1m!!!
     
  31. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth Squad Player

    Yes wouldn't surprise me. He must realise that he will get absolutely nothing if it folds.
     
  32. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I think that figure is referenced in this article:

    https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-owner-potential-buyer?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

     
  33. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    If anyone wants to (seemingly) know the going’s-on down at Bury today, strangely enough the account to follow is @AndyhHolt on Twitter - he’s the chairman of Accrington Stanley who oversaw their turnaround and has been ‘assisting’ Steve Dale with a takeover it seems.

    He doesn’t speak highly of Dale as a person - has said he’s put Dale in contact with potential bidders and has had to remind him to even text them back! - but is clear in saying that IF Dale sells, Bury fans will owe Steve Dale a debt of immense gratitude as no one else would have been stupid enough to take them on under the circumstances and he will actually be leaving then in better circumstances when he arrived financially. Club would have unbelievably gone to the wall far quicker without him.

    Andy Holt has been the biggest voice when saying lower league clubs need to run sustainably and has backed it up. His Twitter is interesting reading...
     
    scummybear likes this.
  34. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Seemingly saved at the eleventh hour. Which makes you think it could have been done far sooner but Dale was hoping for a mega-bid for weeks - and relented at the last minute with none in sight.
     

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