Having watched Goals on Sunday, which showed far better coverage of the game than MotD, here's my take on the key incidents. The first one was the red card. It was something in real time that looked innocuous. Had the referee played on nothing would have been said, as it was not an obvious red card. It only was reviewed and talked about because the referee took action. To my mind the challenge by Carroll on Zeegelaar a few weeks ago was far worse and he didn't even get booked. I didn't see too much wrong with Zeegelaar's challenge and I think the overall view from the pundits was it was harsh, the co-commentator didn't think it was a sending off, but by the letter of the law, it was probably correct. It was one of those 50-50 ones. Had he not sent off Zeegelaar nothing would have been said, so we've been a bit unlucky there and it did change the entire game. The first penalty claim, was a clear foul. Richarlison was held back as the ball came in and it should have been a penalty. This is a carbon-copy incident of the Spurs game last week, as Burnley go straight up the other end and score. So from being given a chance to score from the spot, we are 1-0 down. Carrillo running at Tarkowski was also a foul, although in real time looked soft. Should have been a penalty technically, but would have been a cheap one IMO. Burnley's disallowed goal was a correct decision I believe. I know the panel disagreed because they made reference to the fact the ball bounced off Cleverly into Barnes' path, but the original pass was directly to Barnes and he was clearly standing in an offside position, and would have been flagged at that point. But it's a grey area. Does the ricochet from Cleverly count as a second phase of play? The third Watford penalty appeal was a foul on Richarlison, but only after the ball had been played. So no penalty was the correct call. Had Ward not touched the ball, it would have been a clear penalty, as he scissor kicked Richalison with his follow through. Overall Watford played well and were a bit hard done by. Decisions could easily have been reversed on many incidents without too much complaint. So in the last couple of matches Watford can feel a little aggrieved by the officials who have let them down a bit.
I do rather agree. I suspect movie stars were the first 'people brands' but until the 1980s brands were essentially products (one example being Bailey's Irish Cream). Then service brands started emerging & things slid downhill fast. Batigol! He was like a man playing among children.
Interesting Rich seems to be loosing a bit of his shine with us fans , he is good but like many on here I cringe when he goes down. Before the match the commentators were saying he was now a £40m player but until he starts hitting the target he won’t sell for that. To be fair I want to keep him and think it would be better for him to stay with us for a few seasons if he goes to Man City etc now he doesn’t have the consistency to get in the starting 11. One of the things I thought about yesterday was we seemed to be hoofing it up the pitch more than normal, when Deeney plays we seeme to hoof it up hope he brings it down and then play through the centre , when he is not on the pitch we seem to play up through the midfield and out to the sides. Think the problem with Deeney is that when he plays we alter our style to suit him and this seems to nullify the rest of the talent we have. I don’t think he is as bad as everybody makes out , but think if he can’t adapt to our new style we need to look elsewhere. Think we should have taken deeney off and brought Success and Gray on to see what they were like together.
The point not really being discussed is why Zeegelaar felt the need to make a challenge of that type in the oppositions half? Cleverley had just won the ball back, who then seemed to bottle a follow up challenge, only for Zeegelaar to go in two footed. Definite red card. No comparisons whatsoever to Carroll's elbow a few weeks ago - different challenges applied to by a different letter of the law. It was reckless, stupid, and a clear game changer. As much as he looked good at Newcastle, he's prone to the occasional reckless challenge and booking. I'm surprised he didn't get his marching orders last week after a series of poor and late challenges. Why can't we find a left-back who doesn't have a fascination with getting booked? Yesterday was just stupid. No arguments at all. As for the disallowed goal - this really is a grey area. Their striker cannot have been offside at the point of their player passing the ball through (A); he would only have been offside at the point of receiving the ball (B). Of course, between A and B, it took what appeared to be a double deflection of our own players - which by my understanding of the rules he would then be onside. Even Dyche said he wasn't clear on the rules.... it needs tighting up. But my initial view was that goal should've stood. Only other observations are: 1. We create more chances with Gray in the team, especially away from home. 2. Okaka deserves a chance. 3. Our injury prone club is pathetic. I suppose that's what you get for buying players who haven't kicked a ball in months/years, or lack experience at this level, and need some adapting to the premier league. 4. We could do with a sound win on Tuesday..... talking of which, how many we sold? The club go unusually quiet on sales in certain games. Hopefully it'll go ahead given the snow fall... 5. Cleverley is beginning to frustrate me.
I must have underestimated the mental capacity required to read a handful of short paragraphs. I’ve never understood why anyone feels able to respond to a post that they don’t read. If you can’t make it to the end of 5/6 paragraphs, I’m not sure you deserve to be able to give a response to something that’s gone over your head. In response to your post, of course the money matters. It’s taking resource away from alternative players that can actually make an impact. He’s our record signing and what, a quarter of our total summer transfer budget? We would have been better off keeping Amrabat and putting him up front. That’s how bad Grey is. Danny Shittu would be more effective - at least our players would be able to find him. Are you trying to say that we couldn’t find a better record signing? Smaller clubs than us have done it. Looking at the list, I think he is the worst record signing of every club in the league, and certainly not the cheapest. His lack of quality is my real gripe, and that makes him a huge weak link in our match day 25. His cost just rubs salt into the wound.
I do have violet shorts but sadly Stephen is long gone,up the Cam,to the mercy of the tourists! Might Tuesday be called off? Lots of snow in the south east.
People see things in different ways. I've been told I need to change my nappy for saying it's a harsh decision by one intelligent poster. However, my view is shared by others. http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co....s/former-manchester-united-everton-man-905114 The reason I mentioned Carroll's challenge was because the end result was far more damaging. He made a mess of Zeegelaar's face and broke his nose. He had to play with a face mask for several matches after this. This wasn't even considered a foul. You have to take your measure from somewhere. If something like that is not even a foul, then how can Zeegelaar's challenge be a red card? I'm my view he got the ball and was in control of himself. He hardly touched the player he was challenging. It didn't even look bad in real time and I think most were surprised when a red was shown. A reckless stupid challenge is the one Britos did on Knockaert. The one yesterday was nothing like that.
IBB's brand image would be further enhanced with a yellow T-shirt bearing the words SICK OF THIS **** in ancient Greek
For all the Gray bashing we have been far more effective away from home with him in the team. Deeney cannot influence a game playing in his own up front, although there would be an outcry our ambitions as a club has outgrown his contribution on the pitch
Your comment was "it looked like a decent challenge". Do you really, really think that? Because if you do, then that would make you an absolute sh.t ref. as compared to Probert then wouldn't it? Who you previously accused of bias and having a vendetta against us. In fact you'd be a completely sh.t ref. period. Because you have no idea of the concept of objectivity at all. Which is the accusation you consistently chuck at officialdom whereas it's you that's riddled with it. Carrol v Zeegelaar is irrelevant although your view would seem to be that a red shouldn't be shown one week because something bad happened the previous week that didn't get punished. I'm sure that attitude will get us a long way. So you can pontificate at length all you like with your big yellow specs on but if you think that was a 'decent challenge' then I'm afraid that renders anything else you have to say utterly irrelevant and pointless.
Telling someone to change their nappy makes all your points completely irrelevant and pointless IMO. Clearly what I say upsets you greatly and you cannot stop yourself from hurling a tirade of abuse, but you need to control your emotions before posting, or else you will look like a complete and utter moron. Plenty of other people think the red card was harsh. I've even put a link in for the latest one. Even our own head coach agrees with my point, so do you think his diaper needs removing also? http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co....-news/officials-trouble-up-top-talking-904430 http://www.hertfordshiremercury.co....s/former-manchester-united-everton-man-905114 At no time were both feet off the ground in a launch towards the player. By your description of the incident, you clearly think it was as bad as the Britos challenge. If that's your opinion, fair enough, but you'd be in a minority of one with that view.
The Watford players are ridiculous and pointless comparisons to make. Both were Pozzo scouting ‘punts’ with no prior experience in the PL, hence we picked them up for around £10m each and nobody else was interest in or knew of them. They may or may not have succeeded, it’s all very well with the benefit of hindsight pointing out that Richarlison has scored more and cost less, well if it was that easy why don’t we have a squad full of Richarlisons, who only cost about £10m but are much much better than that. How much would you say Richarlison is worth now, with 5 goals and 3 PL assists under his belt? Obviously a lot more than £18m. Gray has a proven track record in the Premier League, hence the premium, Richarlison didn’t, hence the bargain, likewise Doucoure. And Glenn Murray? Are you aware he is 34? How do you think we would’ve all reacted if we spent even a penny on buying Glenn Murray? The comparison is completely pointless.
You really don't get it do you hb1? Your comment "it looked like a decent challenge" doesn't suggest a debate about the minutae between a red or yellow decision. Or an orange as UEA put it at some point. It suggests that you didn't think it was a foul at all. A decent challenge. Really? As in really, really? So now you're guilty of moving the goalposts too. And reduced to looking for quotes from the Hertfordshire Mercury and our own head coach ffs. Of course Silva's biased. That's part of his job. You on the other hand can be as biased as you like as long as you admit it. But you don't do you? Instead you make yourself out to be a paragon of detailed, objective analysis whereas in fact you're a big kid with thick, opaque yellow lenses, congenitally incapable of even a modicum of objectivity. As for the 'tackle itself'. I dont believe I described it at all and certainly didn't compare it to Britos v Knockaert. So you're also guilty of 'making it up as you go along'. But say the Burnley player hadn't leapt up in the air and had instead kept his feet planted. The potential for a Seamus Coleman was right there. And a year out is a lot worse than a month in a face mask. Finally, I really couldn't give a toss what Phil Neville's got to say about it. Exceptionally dense and boring compared to his brother.
This time last season and the season before we were almost exactly where we are now. Progress has been made in exactly the same way it had been made by Quique (who had more points on the board) and Mazzarri. Let's hope Silva can susstain the progress, because we are in the same boat at the moment.
You act like your view is supported by the majority of evidence. It is not. Most ‘experts’ I’ve heard do not think it was a red. It was a far less dangerous tackle than most single footed challenges. He went to ground much further away from the player than in the majority of tackles but the slippery surface carried him through the ball into the player. The only angle it looks like a red is the angle where you cannot judge the distance of the player when his bum goes to ground from the contact. If that was given against an opposition team I’d be laughing my head off. They mugged us off. It was about as dangerous as any goal kick in potentially causing serious damage to the opposition player. I disagree with both of you. To me, your view is equally as mad as his.
My view that it was a foul is supported by everybody. Your view that it wasn't is supported by nobody. Geddit?
KelsoOrn don't take this the wrong way, however it is abundantly clear you take things too seriously & furthermore are laden with anger management issues.
Hahaha!!! How about trying to address the issue of hb1's relentless bias? Sure, he really p.sses me off! Probably a clone anyway. That would fit with being disingenuous.
It doesnt really matter at the end of the day if it was a red or yellow card for Zegegelaar's tackle (though I do feel the Burnely players theatrical jump made it look worse than it was). In todays game you just cant dive into challenges like that and he should have known better. Dont give the ref a decision to make in the first place
What you fail to understand, is when you go down the "abusive for no reason" route in your very first response, your argument is instantly lost, because everyone just thinks you're a thick c***. If my posts really p1ss you off, then that's just a bonus. Keyboard warriors like yourself are so eager to look foolish. It's quite amusing really.
Now now hb1. Don't get all upset and sweary. You are self evidently incapable of addressing a counter argument. You have failed to do so consistently all day. Now run along and take your little doppelganger with you 21st century schizoid boy.
Bit like the Everton pen today - Lovern is an experienced defender so why is he trying to push an attacker in the back who you know will go down at the first chance he can? Perfect chance for the ref to give a pen - soft maybe but it was a pen.
I totally agree with what you've written, as it's the same view my own. Then the last line you called my view "mad". Does that mean your view is mad as well? :]]
It looked like a red to me but I was pissed at the time. The most disappointing thing about the game was the fact they didn't score a second which would have allowed us to **** off home early. I thought we played alright but we are so utterly hopeless up front it's physically painful to watch. We'd have only drawn nil nil at best if we hadn't had a man sent off. We've spent millions and millions more than QSF or mazzarri ever did and still look as toothless up front as we did under either of them. Meanwhile, gabbiadini is still not in the Southampton team. The pozzos should be moving heaven and earth to get this grotesquely ugly genius here in January. I can't see how silva cannot start okaka against palarse. The other two have completely and utterly failed. Abject.
You're literally making my point for me. A 34 year old is scoring more than Andre Gray therefore Andre Gray at this moment in time is a waste of money. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make because it sounds like you're agreeing with me when I say you can get better for £18 million AND far less.
Ha. I now see that I responded to a miked2006 post as if it was an hb1 effort. No matter. However, the point remains that none of us are entirely objective (although some of us at least do try and make some sort of effort). And none of us could do a better job than the current crop of refs. Including Mr Probert. Who isn't biased against anybody at all.
Are you for real? Obviously a 34 year old has NO release value. Brighton paid something like £3m for him + his wages. The £3m is basically like a loan fee and then you’ve got his wages. Andre Gray is what 26? Worse case scenario he’s an absolute failure and we can still sell him for £10m+ to lower prem/championship team.
there was no need for Sanchez to elbow Rich. If he wanted him on the floor then a trip or a shirt pull would have given the same result with a yellow card There was no need for Marvin to jump in there with his two feet at all. It was a foul, it was reckless and it was damn stupid to make the referee make a decision in an area of the pitch where there was no threat Sometime footballers are just thick
