I wouldn't be grumbling about the red too much, I think it could have gone either way and so was harsh, but Zeegalar only has himself to blame. But I do think a referee has to be certain in those circumstances and it certainly wasn't that clear cut, IMO. His left leg stayed on the ground I think, and his right leg was only slightly raised. Our penalty shout looked like one, but Rich always makes the most of these things and I have only seen it twice from a distant, so couldnt be sure. Their disallowed goal was offside surely. The pass to the scorer came off a Watford player, but surely it is the same as if a shot is saved by a keeper and comes out to a forward who was offside when the shot was struck. Some poorer performances from some of those that usually play very well, such as Doucoure, But some players never seem to fail to disappoint when they play and Deeney is no exception, even managing to take the ball off the toe of Doucoure running to shoot from 12 yards, which Cleverley ended up ballooning over. It was the only thing he did of note in the whole game and he saved it until a few minutes from the end - and let us be clear here, he was up against well drilled defenders, they are not of particularly great quality. We just need better than Deeney in the Prem. Considering we played most of the game with 10 men, and we just did not get the luck when we needed it, I still thought our performance was worth a point.
He's not really not the answer for a staring place as he can't do what he does for 90 minutes. He doesn't suit our style of play. We need a hybrid of all 3
Beaten by a very well drilled team who, at this point, are a better all round team than Watford No surprise that our Brazilian wonder kid is looking tired with all of the added expectation on his shoulders. He needs a rest Also no surprise that we don’t look as strong in midfield without our best player, by a country mile, in Chalobah Deeney and Gray are not perfect - both have totally different skill sets but, IMHO, should be supported until we have something better The red, the not given penalty and the offside goal were all marginal and could have gone either way. Nothing like the certain handball vs Spuds Kudos to those who made the trip
Reading this thread it sounds like the wheels have fallen off. They haven't. The oil light has come on and there's some smoke from the exhaust. Nothing a full service and a couple of new parts can't fix. If only the mechanics weren't all pulling a sickie.
I'd agree with your post in its entirety except for the fact that if you defend like we did for their goal, you're always going to put yourself at a disadvantage so I can't agree with your last sentence. And it's not an isolated error either, we are frequently caught with players unmarked in our box. We rarely looked like scoring ourselves today and we commit defensive suicide with such regularity that we cannot afford to not score. If we could defend we'd have a point today, 10 men or no.
It would be nice if, just once, one of these marginal or controversial decisions actually went our way for a change rather than always being on the wrong end of them.
Well yes true, it was poor defending, however apart from their goal all their efforts were from long range. I think we should have had an equalizer as there were several frantic pin ball moments, where it just would fall for us.
On a positive note, am I crazy for actually quite liking Burnley’s ground? (Admittedly today was my first trip and I can understand that for many who’ve been there countless times and witnessed repeated failures to win and often draw the novelty would have long since worn off.) It’s somewhat ramshackle (I doubt the wooden seats have been replaced since before the last war and the stand to the right reminds me of many a non-league ground, like Twerton Park in Bath) but that’s part of its old-fashioned charm (much more so than the Hawthorns), and it has a nice hilly back drop with the houses close by (unlike so many identikit grounds situated in flat and featureless business parks) and views of the snow-capped Pennines. I guess much of the criticism of Burnley as an away trip stems from the town itself being pretty dreary (does anyone actually work there weekends apart from pub and rail staff, Poles and those at the big Tesco?) and the fact we hardly ever win, and much more often than not we play badly/it’s a **** game. That’s actually the biggest positive I can find about today’s trip (thanks to Virgin Trains for not putting me next to a power point that I specifically requested which meant my phone was dead by the time I got to the ground ensuring I couldn’t take pics) - not a great advert for the top 10 of the English Prem by any means, and a shoe-in for last on MotD. I thought we were clearly the better team first 20 or so minutes and held our own 10 vs 11 with Troy actually having some impact (odd that Burnley should sit back against a ten-men team with nothing to lose who were bound to throw caution to the winds) but the sending off ruined it as a spectacle.
I actually quite liked it as a town. Locals were friendly, pub we went to was nice and I thought it seemed quite vibrant.
Now you come to mention it, yes, think it might have been. Liked Sam Leitch, not even a good face for radio, though.
I suppose at least it's come at the right time to cool some of the Jan interest in Silva/Rich/Doucoure
Lee Probert "I had a premediated game plan today. I wanted to send off a Watford at the earliest opportunity and I'm gutted that I didn't beat my 27 second record. So to make up for them spoiling my fun, I didn't give them two obvious penalties. I feel so much better now and I'm going to call my mate Clattenberg. I'm sure he'll be proud of me. "
I'm gutted with the result and angry about ref decisions. But I don't think we were as bad as what some are making out. We started much better and then they started to come back into it. If we'd have got an early goal from some of our early chances it could easily have been another Newcastle performance. The sending off changed the dynamic but even after that we still made some semi decent chances and had good possession. I'm really disappointed but still looking forward to the trip down to Palace.
Would you be kind enough to name the Indian. I was looking at going to one tonight, downloaded menu from Aroma and the one opposite, but prices seemed stupidly expensive. Would like to try your recommendation tomorrow.
First of all - massive hat tip to those on here that made the journey. Burnley away in mid winter with our terrible record up there is almost self abuse. Overall, I suspected we'd lose by the odd goal, and so it played out. As for Zeegelaar's sending off - I don't think it was worthy of a red, but he has to take 50% of the blame for making a useless official make a key decision. He didn't need to go in like he did, and it's ultimately cost us. Probert was always going to red card him given half a chance when committing a rash challenge. Richarlison maybe needs a rest for a game or two, but I fear as soon as we see the team play without him, we'll be desperate for him to return. It was a penalty in my book, but then I can only see it with my biased Watford eyes. I need to see the offsides again to definitively have a say, therefore it's possible they cancelled out our penalty shouts. Or not? As for the team being below par - much of that is down to the way Burnley play. They make you below par with their constant spoiling, negative tactics, defensive organisation and numbers behind the ball to limit your attacking threat. There's nothing in the rules to say you can't play like that - and Dyche has become a master at it. But that type of game is why - when a bigger job becomes available - Silva is higher up the wanted list. Even if Burnley finish 5 or 6 places higher than us come May - I'd wager right now we'll have more offers for Marco than they will for Dyche. And it's nothing to do with their nationalities. Also amazed to hear Burnley supporters on Twatter complaining of us being dirty??!! It never ceases to amaze me how fans (I'm sure we do it to) cannot see the dark arts of their own team. Another aspect of their style, drummed in to them by Dyche. Give me an entertaining style of play over that kind of rubbish any day of the week. I hope Zaha is suspended for Tuesday (bet he won't be) or that Kiko is fit. Janmaat is a decent player, but lacks pace so I fear he'll be skinned by Harry's mate. Also wouldn't surprise me to see Daryl overstretch to keep up and injure himself, just like he did against Sane in the Man City game last season. In a nutshell - considering we're always rubbish in the northwest, and had a man sent off against a very organised back-line, I'm not all surprised at the result. I also believe we did enough to earn a draw. I know we didn't exactly have chance after chance - but nobody does at Turf Moor. I watched the whole Burnley-Arsenal game the other week, and despite Arsenal's possession, they also barely created a chance. The only difference was they kept 11 on the pitch, and their penalty claim was given (no more a penalty than ours was today). With 11 on the pitch, I'm certain we'd have taken a point at least. Fingers crossed for Tuesday (and Zaha's suspension!)
It was called Shimla spice - bring your own beer/wine which ways saves a bit. The plain naan was massive. Seemed to be very popular with the locals as it had groups waiting to get in as we were leaving. Rest of our group staying up but I had to get back to Manchester road station
I also dont know what people genuinely have problems with about that performance. Red card was justifiable but harsh and ayrllow would have been reasonable. They scored once with 11 v10 and we had chances at 11 v11 and 11 v 10. Against a decent albeit uninspiring side. Nobody beat 3 players and rifled one into the top corner, but I wouldnt say anyone was poor. Palace will be easier and its likely the cheating ***** zaha is missing.
I can see why the ref gave the red, it was a wreckless challenge. Thought we were brilliant, very unlucky not to come away with a point and for the most part you couldnt tell we were a man light. Lots of positives bring on the next match.
When given space to play this team is exciting to watch and scores goals When we have to dig deep or break down a parked bus or handle Burnley away in winter it all quickly unravels and we don't have the brains to get a result I don't see us getting anything at Palace either
No epic pictures this time Jossy? I was in row FF and would love to see some (and maybe nick a couple!) that replicated the view I was sadly unable to capture today. While I agree with much of your observations on Burnley, I think you’re damning them with slightly faint praise. They worked extremely hard, constantly denying us space (not that easy as you have to be smart and alert to track the runs of unpredictable players like Rich, Pereyra and Doucoure), forced mistakes to counter with pace, and showed themselves capable of knocking the ball about nicely (as acknowledged by their fans ole’ing them during a period in the second half). There’s little subtlety or incisiveness to their play, but they do enough to earn results (though 28 points is hugely flattering for that style of play and I’d be amazed if they don’t experience a massive drop in form once teams start working a way through them). That said I had a feeling as I feared that some key players weren’t fully up to the battle - it was disappointing to see them so often bullied into conceding possession for fear of bone crunching tackles and other rough challenges.
Didn't show the penalty incident (ours anyway!) Red card was unlucky as he slipped over/went to ground and then made contact high on the leg as a result - not helped by the reaction of the Burnley players! Offside goals were irrelevant anyway .
I've seen the incidents now and no way can the ref see that as a red in real time. It looked like a decent challenge, so it's a bad decision to send him off. Ironically it probably won't be rescinded as it looked worse when it was slowed down. But if you send players off for that sort of tackle most games would end 5 v 5. Cleverley's tackle just before that looked just the same for example. Well done BBC for not showing our penalty incident, which the guys on Sky described as stone wall, but they show an incident for Burnley which they considered more worthy of a penalty. Didn't show the Doucoure shot either. Going by their editing, it looked like Watford were lucky to lose only 1-0, but going by reports from neutrals watching the game, it was clear we were hard done by again. Seems to be the same officials as well that always seem to be against us. Not a lot you can do about this sort of thing. Had we different officials in the last two games I'm sure we'd have taken 4 or 6 points instead of just 1. The incidents are starting to build again. It's been ok for a few seasons now, but this is probably the worst season for bad decisions since Zola's first season with us. It's a myth to say England has the best referees in the word. The standard is very poor. I think the EFL should trial European officials, who would come in without prejudice and just referee a match to the laws of the game. I think you'd be amazed at how much better things would be.
Deary me here we go again. ‘If we lose to Palace Huddersfield is massive’, is it? Last five we’ve beaten West Ham and Newcastle, lost to Utd at home and Burnley away and drawn at home to Spurs. Had somebody projected 7 points from those 5 games I would have said about right. Chalobah, Kaboul, Femenia, Britos all out today, so more quality to come back. We’ll finish top half I’m sure.
Deeney wasn’t very good. Can’t remember him winning the ball in the air, or even making a nuisance of himself. He was absolutely bullied by the Burnley central pairing. Time for him to move on.
Quote from a Burnley fan on another forum I read: "Today I saw a footballer (Deeney) turn in the most disinterested performances from a professional footballer in my 40 odd years of watching Burnley we have been linked with him a few times,but I wouldn't want this guy within 300 miles of my club.and on that showing I'm sure most Watford fans would agree.....he's not fit to wear your shirt....disgusted in that performance today. Sorry guys but it was pretty bad." Defeat wasnt Deeney's fault by any stretch but he was woeful. Gtay should have been on far sooner. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
I don't usually bother posting pictures after a defeat as I assume that people don't want to be reminded of it! When we win, people are generally happier and so enjoy a visual reminder. Regarding faint praise - I realise Burnley work hard, their whole system is based around it. If ever a team was in the mould of it's manager, it would be them. I just don't like the style of football Dyche plays. It's not pretty on the eye, it requires less talent and it includes lots of niggley aspects off the ball and buying cheap fouls etc. It's only my personal preference - after such a dull year last season, I'm really enjoying seeing our current team try to play the game in what I believe is the right way. It's harder to be successful playing this way, as you leave gaps at the back (as well we know). But I find it much more entertaining and there's more respect within the game for those that play like this (see Guardiola's relentless attack over Mourinho's cautious approach). I've said before - this is the main reason why Dyche is always behind Silva when a shortlist is drawn up of potential candidates for bigger jobs. Nothing personal against him, I just don't like his style of football and even though it would never happen again - I'd be disappointed if he ever came back here to manage. Back to your original point - here's a selection of pics from today. I haven't been able to find many taken from our supporters vantage point - but if you trawl through twitter I'm sure you'll find a few:
I think the harsh reality is despite the promise we show at times, we are an average team with limitations. We couldn’t beat Stoke with 11 men behind he ball, we couldn’t hold on for even a draw against Chelsea when we should’ve won, we couldn’t take advanatage of Spurs with 10 men in a bad run of form, and even get a point against Burnley. For every good encouraging result we will have one with a question mark next to it, so it’s just best to enjoy the ride and try not to get to worked up over the inevitability of losing to a team like Burnley.
