Bristol City 0-0 Watford Fc - 25/11/2020

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Ybotcoombes, Nov 22, 2020.

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What will happen

  1. Trump will resign , order will be restored to the universe and we will win

    3 vote(s)
    4.2%
  2. Corbyn will lead a bloody revolt take the country by force, resulting in a loss for Watford

    5 vote(s)
    7.0%
  3. It will be jolly entertaining game with Watford winning by 2 or more

    6 vote(s)
    8.5%
  4. It wont be that great but we will by 1 so that is something

    10 vote(s)
    14.1%
  5. All a bit disappointing as we walk away with yet another draw

    19 vote(s)
    26.8%
  6. Bristol sneak a win at the end , beating up by 1

    16 vote(s)
    22.5%
  7. Bristol show us how its done and we suffer a humiliating defeat by at least 2 goals

    12 vote(s)
    16.9%
  1. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor



    Agree with this, but we have Perica, who looks like he does fit in Ivic's system. Let's hope we use him this weekend.
     
  2. WatfordÉire

    WatfordÉire Squad Player

    Not the worst point we'll pick up this season. A better performance from QPR, but still not reaching the heights some of us were expecting.

    A lot of the pre match talk was about wanting an improvement in performance even if it means not winning, and I suppose we got that.

    I know Gray is only coming back from an injury which kept him out for a few months, so he can't possibly be sharp, but my god that was bad. Can't remember a worse individual performance in a Watford shirt in all my time supporting. He looked like he'd won a competition to be out there.

    Not sure if Perica is somehow the magical answer given his goalscoring history (or lack-of), but he's looked OK and I'd certainly be hoping he starts against PNE ahead of Gray or Deeney.

    Sarr needs to keep it simple and knock the ball past the fullback and beat them for pace. He's dropping too deep and too central and therefore giving himself too much to do when he does get possession. Another one seemingly low on confidence.

    Pedro was fairly quiet.

    Thought Garner was very good and Quina too.

    Cathcart should have scored his chance.

    Chalobah was poor. It's Hughes, Capoue and Garner for me when everyone is fit.

    Its a long auld season, with a new coach trying to a squash a losing mentality from last season while integrating a lot of young players we've wanted to see more of (Pedro, Quina, Wilmot), it was never going to be easy and without setbacks. We look like there's another few gears this team can go up once we get the balance right, hopefully before too long. Lets keep 4-3-3 for a start!

    In hindsight if you'd have offered me 5th after 13 games, only 4 points off top after the shambles of last season I'd have took it.
     
  3. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    I think a lot of teams in this division will see us Muff and Norwich as bigger boys where a draw is a good result, even at home, as we did to some extent against the likes of City last year. They are scarred of Sarr.
    We need be able to break them down in that case. Aiming for 0-0 ourselves is never going to achieve more than the playoffs at best
     
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  4. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Why?
     
  5. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    well yeah, if they've actually seen our games this season maybe not, but they remember him ripping Liverpool to pieces
     
    Keighley likes this.
  6. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    The media still talk about Deeney and Gray as real threats too.

    Basically we have been hyped up to be better than we really are by fans, pundits and players themselves.
     
  7. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    I can see where you are coming from, if we had scored 2 goals it would have been a magnificent performance with us in control, and as stupid as that sounds it was just 2 bits of luck that would have changed my view from disappointed to ecstatic.

    For me I think the lack of somebody that can just pop up out of nowhere and put it in the back of the net is just becoming draining, it feels like ¾ of the team is able to perform at a high enough level but we miss the 1 magic ingredient so we are always at risk of losing 1:0. Week after week I watch us perform and like last night in the first half sit there thinking we look all right and then after ½ an hour realise it just isn’t going to happen for us.

    Like you say Gray just doesn’t fit in with how we play, we seem to me to be a premier league side that cant adapt to a more direct approach, Foster plays out from the back (which always scares me), we keep the ball for 5 mins give lose in their penalty area, get it back in midfield and repeat. We look most dangerous when defence hoof over midfield, Sarr, JP or Quina pick it up and run at goal. To be fair to Deeney you could see a bit of the old style yesterday, ball is hoofed up, Denney knocks down somebody gets on the end of it, we get a ½ chance.
     
  8. Dorset-Orn

    Dorset-Orn First Year Pro

     
  9. Dorset-Orn

    Dorset-Orn First Year Pro

    It's the old horses for courses thing.
    Most experienced C/ship managers try to get the best out of the players they've got. GT was a master at it. Most teams we've played so far will have set out with very specific instructions to a) work hard to blot out our key attackers, b) battle as a team, c) press up on our defenders to stop us playing out. That's their objective with hopes of the odd break / goal.
    To me we are just so easy to disrupt and nothing changes. I feel sure that if you gave our squad to most of the other team's manager - they would have us playing it long to our front runners to good effect.?
    I think Vlad is stubborn enough not to change anything in the way we set up and play.....
     
    Ybotcoombes likes this.
  10. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    I'd like to see us take some risks and attack a bit.

    Trying to control the game is all very well in theory, but it's negating our biggest threats.

    A few decent passes forward over or behind the defence in every game, or Sarr being told to go at his man, and we will win games. Doesn't matter if it doesn't come off every time.
     
    Ybotcoombes and Dorset-Orn like this.
  11. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Exactly, I wouldn't say we 'controlled' the Stoke and Cov games (though we certainly did for patches), but keeping it simple, we cut them open. Unfortunately it looks like Sema is unavailable though, though Joao Pedro is a top talent, he's a) inconsistent and b) he doesn't offer the same kind of threat as King Ken. Time to step up Ismaila
     
    Supertommymooney likes this.
  12. Dorset-Orn

    Dorset-Orn First Year Pro

    Agreed.
    I don't get this idea managers have of.. "this is the why I want to play, and I'm not changing it".
    I always remember a Leeds side years ago with Gordan Strachan in it in his last couple of years playing....... They were very good but the key to their success was they played at pace and changed it a lot. A passage of keep ball, followed by a few long balls, you never knew their next move, (unlike our current game plan... A) pass it around for two minutes in our own half, b) clear it up field in panic as we're driven backwards...)
     
    Ybotcoombes and Supertommymooney like this.
  13. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    He changed it yesterday. To me it looks like we have too many uninterested players. Added to a really boring style of play.
     
    wimbornet likes this.
  14. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    I think post match the hyperbole runs rife but I like to let the dust settle, (I was angry as everybody after that game) we implemented the change in play we were asking for ie passing through the midfield and keeping possession. I think the high expectations lead to an overly negative interpretation, Im guilty of that myself.

    When you look at the chances I think a draw was a fair result. Drawing away to the 3rd placed team is usually considered a good result. Win at home and draw away is guaranteed title winning form more seasons than not.

    Bristol City deserve special mention for the quality of their organisation off the ball. Our laborious build up play certainly aided them though.

    However, Im not indulging in happy clapperdom, there were many faults with the way we played and certain individual performances, but I do see that performance as a move in the right direction.

    Moving on, same formation for me, Perica in for Gray and Sema alternating with Pedro. Capoue in for Chalobah ( who sadly was very poor).

    Thought Quina had his best game for us, and provided the guile to break down a 10 man penalty area block. Yes he lost possession, but generally when taking a high risk move on the edge of opponents box. It is acceptable to have a higher rate of losing possession on the edge of opposition box than in CDM/CB role.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2020
  15. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    This always ties me up in knots. The very best managers have a style of play and a system that they stick to, but they also generally have the best players so it’s a lot ‘easier’ to stick rigidly to a system, and because they’re generally better than the opposition they don’t need to make allowances for the opposition.

    A good example of this was us vs Liverpool, they made no allowances for how we played, played a ridiculously high line and as a result we ran riot. It’s a relatively rare occurrence though.

    This is why until recently I thought Mourinho was a busted flush, certainly at Utd he constantly made allowances for the opposition and set up to try and stop them, rather than having his own style of play. He also did it last weekend against City, but it obviously worked very well. But in my mind I didn’t consider him a top manager anymore because he reacts to the opposition rather than having his own system. However, at spurs he has utilised the strengths of his key players and when they aren’t playing top teams he plays in a way that plays to their strengths and they generally win.

    As I said, this always ties me in knots because I have mixed views. I think a decent manager needs a system, but they also need to combine that system with the players they have at their disposal and also with an eye on the opposition as well.

    Pearson did well to start with because he just utilised our best players strengths, but it didn’t work indefinitely. Ivic has been too far the other way, he’s got his system but not made any allowances for the strengths of the players within it.
     
  16. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    A good long ball can show a lot of skill.

    A random hoof is a different kind of art form.
     
    Bwood_Horn and wfc4ever like this.
  17. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    Considering the relatively late withdrawal of 3 players The team mainly kept their shape and a point away. The clear problem is the transition from midfield to attack and the speed of it. This is not likely to improve over the next 2 games as those 3 midfielders will still be self isolating. Wilmot should be tried at DM as he has previously played there.
     
  18. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Totally agree, we are far to predictable and unenterprising. Our players are generally good in this division, but not that good that the opposition take steps to neutralise the threat. We surprised them in the first half with a new formation, they made changes at half time and snuffed us out second half.

    We are too predictable going forward and average defenders easily cope. When does either Deeney or Gray surprise us (in a good way)? If something isn't put on a plate for them, they don't play any part and certainly won't score, as they just cannot create anything themselves.

    I repeat what I said last week, Quina would be a better option up front than Deeney or Gray, laughed at by several on here. Why not, he can't be any worse? And at least he got a shot on target on Wednesday, turned their players inside out on occasions, and generally looked the main threat against Bristol. He would provide some uncertainty for defenders, he would make them think, and that causes mistakes. He is obviously nowhere near as good, but he is a player similar in nature to Sterling, who big defenders do not like playing against and there is always the hope that he would do one of his turns in their area instead of the centre circle and create a chance.

    Or, why not through on one of our Under 23 attackers on for 45 minutes when existing players are so ineffective? Again, could any of them be as poor as Gray was? Or Deeney?
     
  19. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Think we should probably try Perica first?
     
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  20. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Yes, he slipped my mind. But why first? Quina could play in a more attacking role alongside him. We don't need to start with such a defensive set-up against Championship sides.
     
  21. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    What did you do with all that time you saved from not typing "hampion" ?
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  22. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Mind you having to look down to find the "/" key must have eaten into valuable microseconds.
     
  23. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Some times the more informed and astute pundits mention the little known fact that we have had 50 gazillion managers in the last 5 seasons.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  24. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Could've just stopped after the first sentence.

    Quina was the most advanced of our three midfielders against Bristol and gave his best performance of the season so far. Why would we move him even further forward and play him alongside Perica in a role he's never played?
     
  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    And potentially another one soon ?!
     
  26. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I don't know why you are arguing about it. A couple of weeks ago you said he shouldn't be on the pitch unless we are 3-0 with 10 minutes left.
     
  27. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    That was before Covid and further injuries took out the whole of our first choice midfield and we changed formations to one that suited him better. Also, it's been one improved performance, let's not get carried away yet...

    And no matter how much better that performance was, it'll never be a good idea to play him as a striker.
     
  28. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Playing him as a striker would a highly experimental long-shot. He was playing further forward and is just where he should be: His best assets are dribbling, passing and shooting, but he is small and lightweight, so playing 3/4 of the way up the pitch is right. He is a menace when he plays anywhere near our defence, however, - too inexperienced and wrong mind-set.
     
  29. Dorset-Orn

    Dorset-Orn First Year Pro

    Hmmm... It was either scratching my nose or @rse.! I promise to do better....
     
  30. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Glad you've agreed you were wrong anyway. In my opinion, it is usually wrong to write skilled and enthusiastic young players off after a handful of full appearances.
    Some of them need to get past that "trying too hard" phase that only a run in the team can bring.

    But, I wonder how you know it would not be a good idea to play him up front to try him out sometimes. As everybody knows, he cannot be worse than what we've been seeing from Deeney and Gray over the past year as it has been like playing with 10 men with one of them up front.
     
  31. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Why is 3/4 forward best for someone lightweight? I wonder who some tall lumbering CB's would prefer to have to mark, Deeney, Gray or Quina? I suspect many would prefer Deeney or Gray.
     
  32. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    By 3/4 forward I mean from the halfway line to the edge of the oppo box.
     
  33. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Was Ben saying that game was “miserable?!”

     
  34. mindthegap

    mindthegap Academy Graduate

    Well Blackburn gave it a good go at Bristol City tonight:
    60% possession
    22 Goal attempts
    7 shots on target
    8 Corners

    However:
    Conceded 1 and Lost.
    That Ivic sure knows what he's doing:D
     

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