Bbc And Diana

Discussion in 'Taylor's Tittle-Tattle - General Banter' started by zztop, Nov 10, 2020.

  1. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    After seeing the first of the two part documentary on ITV last night, it seems that the BBC resort to underhand tactics to achieve their "gotcha" moments, including using forged bank statements showing payments made into a surveillance company to pressurize a paranoid Princess Diana, into the interview with Bashir.

    The BBC are no better than the tabloids that they themselves are so critical of when it comes to dirt digging to get their story. I don't think, if true, deliberately intending to use forged documents is any better than phone hacking.

    The BBC have covered this all up, by suggesting that Diana would probably have done the interview anyway, and so the forgeries were not important.

    I can't believe this has been kept so quiet for so long.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  2. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Agree that the BBC has to be squeaky clean or there is little point in it. It’s important this is now cleaned up.

    It’s really not proved, however, that this aberration makes it like the tabloids for whom this type of behaviour is their everyday. Why don’t you wait to see the outcome of investigations before giving us Rupert’s agenda?
     
  3. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Reservist

    I didn't watch it and won't watch it. And that is because the motivation for such abhorrent behaviour is viewing figures (or readership numbers in the case of the "newspapers").

    It is understandable, if no less disgusting, that the commercial businesses do it. Papers and commercial TV rely on advertising that, in turn, depends on viewing/readership figures.

    But the BBC should rise above that. Unfortunately they seem to focus on viewing figures just as much as the others. And now they are rehashing the story in a two part "exposé" to milk some more "top viewing figures" out of it.

    The only way to stop such crap from appearing on TV or in the papers is not to watch/read it imho.
     
    Moose likes this.
  4. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Personal nest feathering but this does show a fundamental lack of oversight and managements within the BBC's structure.
    Things have changed massively now and I bet this was suppressed until those involved had moved on, retired or popped their clogs.

    The BBC should not be their own regulators.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  5. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    They're not, at least not completely.

    https://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv-radio-a...ating-framework/performance/bbc-annual-report
     
  6. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    The BBC has gone through a number of philosophical iterations in its time. Around then you had a focus on ratings chasing to justify itself as being as relevant as the commercial channels and the beginnings of internal markets, less command and control, more outsourcing. I would have told you then it wouldn’t end well.

    The obsessions with Diana from all of the media have been gross and continue to be so. I despair at people who wanted to watch it then or who care about sagas like Harry and Meghan now.
     
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  7. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    It’s not great, given its taxpayer funded.

    But nowhere near as bad as phone tapping.
     
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  8. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    There is a large degree of oversight now, to the extent that Jeremy Clarkson never ceases to moan about it and how that now he works for Amazon he can do as he wishes.

    I’d like to know for once and for all which model right wing people like. Ok I know the answer, they’ll hate it whatever because their poor little ears have to very occasionally hear an alternative opinion.
     
  9. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Well I disagree.

    If true, the intention was to use create forgeries and use to persuade Diana that she was under private surveillance at a time when she was extremely fragile pushing her to give an interview for Bashir - forgery to gain advantage, which has a penalty of up to 10 years imprisonment.

    Phone hacking (maximum of 2 years imprisonment) is on par with journo's tracking private emails, serious enough, but no worse than the above in my view. And it was a practice used by the printed media as a group, not just the News Of The World.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  10. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I agree with you it’s serious. Any lying or manipulation in journalism is serious and deplorable.

    Which is why it’s odd you then want to use this as some kind of defence or mitigation of News International.

    On Jeremy Vine just they played an interview with the Graphic Designer who claims to have made the forgeries. He had left the BBC when he says Bashir contacted him and asked him to make the statements. He asked Bashir why he wasn’t getting Panorama’s own in-house team to do the work. However, after an alleged burglary he contacted Panorama’s producers to let them know. It sounds like they weren’t best pleased, but if so it’s not clear what, if anything, they did about it.

    An independent enquiry is the right way to find out now.
     
  11. LondonOrn

    LondonOrn Reservist

    Just out of interest, has Bashir done any interviews of note, other than the Princess Di, Louise Woodward and Michael Jackson ones, all of which were around 20 years ago?

    I personally was never a fan of his interviewing style, finding him po-faced and oily, and just not very likeable.
     
    scummybear likes this.
  12. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I'm not defending News International at all, they quite rightly got punished for it - even had to close the most successful Sunday paper down.

    The Mirror Group did it.

    But, what they were doing was a common tactic, many others got away with it.
     
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  13. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54639674
     
  14. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Reservist

    It was also about 20 years ago, but he interviewed the utter scumbags who killed Stephen Lawrence, but at that time had got off. Grilled them and watched them swear they were just lads having a laugh when they made the video about knifing a black man and were nothing to do with it.
     
  15. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    Keep it in the politics section. Please don't drag a discussion down elsewhere with petty left wing / right wing arguments.
     
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  16. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I've said plenty of times, I would like the BBC to report the news.

    I didn't think the BBC should have done the interview at all. It was a one-sided hatchet job on our future King, revealing the problems in their marriage from only one point of view, and would have been far more suited to the red-tops.

    Hundreds of years ago, the "court" would gather round the Kings marital bed to witness consummation of the marriage before it was publicly announced and everyone could have a big cheer! We've gone past such times, and our public broadcaster should not be creating the news around such stuff.
     
  17. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Was it part of the news output? I thought it was a standalone programme.

    I agree with the remainder of your post, although it depends on context IMO - the Prince Andrew interview springs to mind.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
  18. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    You wasted a reply on that? Tedious.

    Why is this thread in this section anyway? It’s clearly political in intent. You know exactly where the OP is coming from.

    And the point is reasonable. You raised oversight, a common tabloid concern, I simply pointed out that it also gets attacked for too much. By sources with the same POV.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
  19. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I was pretty sure that I started it in the politics section, that was my intention, anyway. I think it may have been moved. But I don't know where you think I'm coming from, but I know that I'm having a dig at the BBC - no more than that.

    It was you that started all this right v left wing stuff.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  20. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I won’t respond to your point as you put this thread in a place you clearly didn’t intend to.

    Perhaps @hornmeister would like to correct your error so ordinary forum folk can live in peas.
     
  21. hornmeister

    hornmeister Administrator Staff Member

    I moved the thread as it wasn't political initially. Many people quite rightly avoid that section, so I thought it better here for maximum coverage and actual discussion about the subject rather than the usual slanging match. Happy to move it back if that is ZZ's wish.

    We also already had a political BBC thread that in part was responible for the section being suspended, that will not happen here.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
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  22. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    I don't mind, I was initially taking a dig at the BBC, not a political point. It was others that took it in that direction.
    Feel free to apologise. :D
     
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  23. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    Yes. I accept you put it in the politics section to make a political point. ;)
     
  24. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    The programme is interesting though. It’s all news to me. I didn’t watch the interview at the time, had a total disinterest in Diana and the Royals back then. To be honest, I won’t be able to sustain an interest for long.
     
  25. Yeah but Corbyn.
     
  26. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    Broadcasting Cliff Richard’s house getting raided live via Helicopter wasn’t exactly a great moment for the BBC either.
     
    Moose likes this.
  27. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Reservist

    Bottom line is that, if people didn't want to watch it then the BBC, and all the other media outlets, wouldn't make it.

    In truth, too many people want to watch or read salacious and controversial **** and the media are only meeting the demand.

    If you don't like it stop watching it and, if enough people take that attitude then they will stop making it.
     
  28. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    You are lumping the BBC in with all the other salacious media outlets, and that perfectly describes why I am annoyed at the BBC. In my view, the BBC, in their privileged position, should be better than that.
     
    hornmeister likes this.
  29. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Reservist

    I totally agree. But the fact is, whether it is the BBC or any other outlet, if people didn't watch it then they wouldn't broadcast it.

    The BBC certainly shouldn't indulge in underhand and, perhaps, even illegal practices to get "the story" but anyone who watches it is feeding the beast by providing the demand to broadcast it imho.
     
  30. scummybear

    scummybear Reservist

    I can't stand Martin Bashir, he's a manipulative little weasel. I can't say I'm remotely surprised another of his major interviews involved deceit.
     
  31. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Just seen the second episode. It really is shocking. The Director General John Birt hid it all from the Chairman and Board of Trustees and the subsequent internal investigation concluded that Bashir was blameless, but they should make certain that Weisler, (the man the BBC commissioned to make the forged documents), must never work for the BBC again.

    It really is a crying shame. The BBC is rightly regarded for most of its output, the comedy, the drama, etc, but their news and current affairs output is just a disgrace.
     
    iamofwfc likes this.
  32. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    You're right about this particular instance but I can't agree about all current affairs output, I am afraid.

    Panorama has exposed numerous scandals which might not othewise have come to the public eye, or at least not so swifty. To throw that away because of one (admittedly serious) incident is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    https://www.communitycare.co.uk/201...programme-abuse-learning-disability-hospital/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winterbourne_View_hospital_abuse
    https://www.ft.com/content/732bcd09-7fa2-4a85-9acf-f98480e4f57c
    https://lexlaw.co.uk/solicitors-lon...stly-bank-swap-scandal-swaps-fca-review-irhp/

    And even
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0006p8c
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
  33. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Fair comment, I was on a rant.
     
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  34. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    Thanks! Clearly something has gone badly wrong in this instance, though.

    And, while I have been a defender of the BBC in the past (and I still am - I would hate to see it commercialised) you're right about the news output, at least on TV. I don't think it's biased, I just think it's rubbish. I haven't watched for a while now.
     
  35. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    I thought it was interesting in the documentary about how many break ins there were involving people close to Diana, leading to speculation that these were carried out by the media or by the intelligence services. Breaking into people's homes is certainly up there with phone-hacking. I wonder how common place it has been for a story/

    In the case of the graphic designer who created the statements, the speculation could extend to a person working on behalf of the BBC. The BBC had a department, staffed by ex-plod, that dealt with internal investigations or concerns of corruption. Unlikely that they would not know a private detective or two used to that sort of thing.
     

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