[RUMOUR] Andre Gray

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by Burnsy, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Ybotcoombes and Manatleisure like this.
  2. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    Why are we still discussing if Andre is crap , those of us on the yes he is side are not going to change our minds no matter what stats we see.

    Those on the he’s ok side are clearly derange so no point arguing with :)

    regardless

    it would be madness to send him out on loan at this point in time unless we need his squad place . 16 games left, we need a lot of points he may have to play a part if somebody gets injured. The way all of our other players have suddenly come in to form who knows perhaps big Nige has some of the magic powder left that he used on Kiko.
     
  3. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    :eek:
     
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  4. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I agree that it’s not exactly a swap to excite the imagination. But both players need a move to kick start stagnating careers.

    And let’s be honest and realistic - Deeney is going nowhere. He captain, he’s scored a few and he’s an ideal Pearson type player. If Gray goes, we will be signing a player who will have to be happy to be back up or wait to take his chance. We won’t be signing a striker who is guaranteed to score a hatful because they are beyond our reach. And we won’t be at the front of the queue. Anyone hoping for different is kidding themselves.

    Want a realistic deal, PL proven, typical Pozzo signing, and willing to fight for his place? Then it’s the likes of Benteke - been awful at Palace but showed flashes at Liverpool and was quality at Villa. 29y/o and could do well with a Pearson arm round the shoulder.
     
  5. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    I can see the talks with his agent now - "hi there we know your player is warming the bench at Palace. How about warming the bench at Watford? Might make a nice change. " :D
     
  6. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The thing is, given Deeney is captain, that is what every reasonably attainable striker will have to put up with. I’d like to hope we can attract one that would be up for the fight for the shirt.

    The reality might be that we bin Success off, get Welbeck in contention in the next week and then we may be open to offers for Gray towards the end of the window when bids will fly about and we may get a tempting offer. Joao Pedro can be the back-up to all the above. But it makes no sense to accept a bid for Gray when we are still unsure on Welbeck and the postponement of the Tranmere game has hindered Pearson getting another look at JP.

    I’d prioritise getting Success off the books before Gray personally.
     
    Happy bunny likes this.
  7. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Gray aint going nowhere in this window. Pearson will have none of it. :p
     
  8. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    Relying on Welbeck to be fit is a gamble at any time, much as I like him as a player
     
  9. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    Benteke !?!??!?!?!??!?!?!? ****************!!?!?!??!? seriously!!!!! He's been shot for years.
     
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  10. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    Relying on Wellbeck is like putting your pension cash into bitcoin.
     
  11. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    Gray has a faultless attitude (watch him celebrate the goal v Bournemouth after he came on in the 90th minute with the game already won). Very hard working team player. Has already proved he can score vital goals and is our 3rd top scorer of all time in the premier league. Best position in 4231 is on the right as he isnt that adept at leading the line. The key thing with Andre is his ability to get into goal scoring positions and yeah we all know he's not f**king Sergio Aguero. If I was Leeds I'd offer £20m, he would guarantee them promotion. I think he's around the top 3 strikers in championship history for minutes per goal. All those people saying they'd drive Andre to Leeds. Ud have to get past my 1970s Central American civil war style road block just outside Watford
     
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  12. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Mathematical certainty those bad boys hit $500,000 a coin according to forum experts. Happens this year if I remember correctly.
     
  13. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Yeah, "Wellbeck", more like "Sickbeck", am-I-right?
     
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  14. Cassetti's Beard

    Cassetti's Beard First Team

    Whether you're for or against Grey, and regardless of what Pearson says, he'll be sold in the Summer. Any quotes from the club saying he's still part of our plans is to ensure we recuperate as much money as possible from the initial transfer.

    Personally I can't wait till he leaves, but that's purely because I'm looking forward to finally (hopefully) getting in another striker who has a decent first touch and doesn't fluff every one on one or open goal.

    Gray is quite lucky he's at Watford as there's plenty of fans from other clubs who would give him absolute hell on match days for some of his missed opportunties, fortunately we're a nice bunch compared to others and even when things are going badly the vast majority of us tend to just sit there quietly tutting.
     
  15. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    Not a bad first touch with the keeper still to beat...

    https://www.skysports.com/football/watford-vs-leicester/391044

    I'm with you an overhaul in the summer would be good for progression sakes, but I mean all positions not just the front man.
     
  16. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    A player who is settled at a club, fits in with the group and is capable of putting in a shift is often worth 50% more to his club than his transfer value. Players like Troy Doucs Caps Fozzy Cathcart Mapps Kabba even Pereyra fit this category. Id say Dre is worth what we paid for him especially taking his resale value into account. If we sold him and spent the money on another striker the new guy could be a complete dud. AG's 14 PL goals = no dud. AG cost slightly more than Peneranda and Oulare combined or Sinclair and Success combined. We pretty much burned 30 million quid on those 4. All 4 have very questionable attitudes and have shown virtually no end product. AG has been a roaring success compared to them 4.
     
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  17. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I'm disappointed you didn't come up with random nicknames for the other players.

    Cathcart - Cathy
    Pereyra - Sharky
    Penaranda - Who He?
    Oulare - Oolarey
    Success - Baileys
    Sinclair - ****y
     
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  18. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    AG's 14-PL goals over three seasons after paying a record transfer fee of the best part of £20m for him = definite dud.
     
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  19. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    Yes, that Pulitzer prize is slowly slipping through my fingers
     
  20. Manatleisure

    Manatleisure Squad Player

    But he isn't a starter.
     
  21. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Because he's crap.
     
  22. Leighton Buzzer

    Leighton Buzzer Reservist

    Capoue - Ettie.
     
  23. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    = “if you compare Gray to players who have done nothing, he looks comparatively good!”

    Not a particularly strong argument, for me. I mean, what next? Send him to the over 90s annual OAP 5 a side so we can favorably compare him to the other players there?

    Premier league standard is what he needs to be compared to, not the Isaac Success Power Index (sponsored by Bailey’s). Whether or not other players have failed to make the grade has no bearing on that.
     
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  24. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    How do you define 'Premier League standard', then? You clearly consider it to be more complex than being contracted to play for a PL club.

    I should have thought comparing him to his teammates was a very valid form of comparison. Just as any employer might compare the perfomance of one employee against another.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020
  25. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    You also consider it more complex than being contracted to play for a PL club. Well, unless you think Watford offering you a contract would suddenly imbue you with Premier League level footballing talent.

    An opinion you would be entitled to, of course, but I'd be quite surprised to hear you held it. :)

    There's no value in comparing someone to a person who has not succeeded, at least insofar as establishing whether or not a player is up to a certain standard goes.

    That's akin to having a standard of being able to swim 250m and comparing a potential recruit to those who can't swim, instead of comparing them to someone who can swim 250m. Saying "well, he's better than these people who can't swim" doesn't establish that candidate John Smith can swim 250m.
     
  26. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Well, according to some on here, I would be no worse than Gray.:D

    I don’t agree with your final point because you are exaggerating to make it fit. Of course Success et al can “swim”. They just can’t swim very well. Gray can swim better than them, but he doesn’t swim as well as Aguero or Vardy (or Deeney, for that matter).

    Just as one employee may be more productive than another, but not necessarily as productive as the employee in the firm across the street. Both comparisons are valid ones, it seems to me. It’s just a question of which you think is more important, and I don’t dissent from the general view that he certainly could be better than he is.
     
  27. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Put simply, I don’t think anyone has a huge issue with the criticism of Gray’s ability or ‘form vs cost’. Most are largely in the same boat about it.

    But there are some who go off the deep end a bit and say we should sell at all costs or for any bid - it’s not as easy as that. That’s the point I’ve been trying to get across anyway.
     
  28. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    Reports tonight say we would accept 2m loan fee plus all his wages paid!
     
  29. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Can you post a link?

    Also - it seems to be Championship clubs who want him. None of them will cover his whole wage.
     
  30. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    You'd certainly contribute at least as much as Penaranda.

    I am exaggerating to illustrate the point, not to imply Success and friends can't play football.

    It doesn't matter if you can't swim, can swim 25m or can swim 50m if you need to be able to swim 250m to compete. At that point they're all not up to it. The fact one reject can manage 50m more than one of the others doesn't matter.

    Whether or not he's as good of a performer as the guy across the street isn't the question. The question is whether or not he's a good enough performer to remain employed at the firm.

    You don't establish that standard by looking at the people who aren't good enough and saying "well, he's better than that one". On the same note, you don't establish the standard by looking at the bod across the road who performs the best in the whole firm, because at that point you'll end up with literally 1 employee after showing everyone else the door.

    For the vast majority of situations, the standard is set by the requirements of the job and not by the relative ability of coworkers.

    I can give you a real world example from my own business. At present, we have 3 receptionists. 1 is terrible. 1 is well below the required standard. 1 is excellent.

    The fact that the one who is well below the required standard is better than the terrible one isn't going to save her employment if she doesn't improve. But she doesn't need to match the abilities of our excellent receptionist to keep her job (although we'd be delighted if she did).
     
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  31. miserableoldgit

    miserableoldgit Reservist

  32. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    OK, well argued.

    I suppose what irks me is that he seems to receive more criticism than the likes of Success etc. Yet the latter seems worse at his job. It’s almost as if Isaac is being partially excused because people have written him off as a dud, yet Gray gets greater stick because there is some degree of ability there, but it’s not being properly used. That seems a bit unfair to me, but I suppose life may just be like that...
     
  33. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    If it is true, it's a huge fee presumably to ward off interest but if anyone is mug enough then we get a financial benefit. I seem to remember we got 2.5m loan fee for Vydra.
     
  34. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    I think that comes down to the fact Gray is not only a senior player, but also ex-Luton, taunted our own fans at a game, made some pretty stupid comments in the past about homosexuality and has a chequered past with knife crime.

    Comparatively, Success is a youth player (or rather has been for most of his time with us), likes Baileys and can't even score with a prostitute.

    From a pure footballing perspective, Success has been (IMO) worse value for money than Gray as things stand. When you account for the other factors, though, it's a bit easier to see why some dislike Gray more. He's done himself absolutely no favours on that front. Gray simply has far less (fewer) good will to draw from than Success does. It's probably unfair, but there we go.
     
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  35. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange


    I think Gray only gets more stick because he comes on as a sub more often so is more in our minds. Has to be said when ever we are reminded that success is in our squad he gets a fair amount of stick as well
     
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