Didn’t see him tonight as I didn’t watch the game, but while obviously it would have been foolish to write off Gray based on his ten minutes at Villa if those were his first ten minutes playing for us, based on what we do know about him, how long he’s been at the club and how many chances he’s been given and blown, it’s fair to say that that short appearance was a good summary of why he isn’t good enough. He messed up a simple pass to Deulofeu, who later decided to go alone when Gray was in a good scoring position because clearly he couldn’t trust him to score. (And this was presumably based on watching him in the first game vs Tranmere and at Bournemouth, when in both games he miscontrolled the ball, leaving the lurking Pereyra to finish the job.) It may be an over-exaggeration, but not far from the truth, that this sequence of events started by Gray indirectly cost us at least a point. It’s like when I was at school and was terrible at football and put in the lowest game, which I actually liked because everyone was so bad, you always had a good chance of getting the ball. When I was playing football with my class though with people who actually knew how to pass the ball, I’d never receive it because people knew I’d do nothing useful with it. I think this is sadly what Gray’s team mates feel about him now.
If Nige and Craig are the coaches we believe they are, they will have reached the same conclusion we have. They have given him every chance. I’m expecting a fit Welbeck to replace him on the bench, and if he’s not gone in this window he will by the next.
It would be silly to form an opinion on Gray after playing 210 minutes against a struggling League 1 side. I say we start him in the next 14 games before forming judgements?
Good to see even the Gray fan boys have changed their tune after one of the most abject performances in the history of our club. Did you know he cant even take a kick off without ***qing it up? Absolutely incredible scenes.
I honestly don't think Andre is as **** as he's playing at the moment, it's got to be a confidence thing because stuff like that kick off yesterday is a joke. Would be best for everyone if he moved on, hopefully he can regain his scoring touch because I don't think he's a bad player when he's confident.
https://twitter.com/EmiratesFACup/s...4?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet This sums him up.
I agree with this. He's a player with zero confidence. He's better than he appears to be at Watford, but he's not a Premier League player. This is probably his biggest problem, trying to play at a level he's unable to consistently perform at. Over time that seed of doubt in his mind has grown and taken over. I also think his time at Watford has run it's course and he should go. However, there are two things to that. His salary, even Leeds would pick up the tab for that, plus if we do actually get relegated, he'd be a good player to have in the squad for sure. You can bet your life the likes of Gerri, Bobby and a few others will be off very quickly. Gray does have good battling attributes, but kicking a ball, weighting a pass, or finishing by hitting the ball cleanly is just totally beyond him. Give him time to think when given a chance he will miss it every time. When it's instinctive, he has a chance of scoring.
You might be right, but he is absolutely finished with us as you say. The only possible reason there can be for us to hang on to us is the pozzos cannot face up to the reality of their catastrophic error in judgement. You cant really blame them. Imagine throwing £18m down the chitter!
I know this is being used to beat him up as it plays into the hands of his distractors, but I think I can see what he's done. He was too keen to kick off and went to kick it fractionally before the referee blew the whistle. He's tried to check himself but ended up tapping the ball forward. Referee should have ordered a retake, but compounded the error by giving a free kick and making Gray look like a fool.
Because he kicked the ball before the referee's whistle. He went early. Usually if a freekick is taken before the whistle the referee instructs a retake.
I actually feel sorry for him now. I think the kindest thing for him now would be for Pearson to do an Old Yeller on him.
We're talking by a fraction of a second. The ref had already signaled for kick off with his arm just before he blew his whistle so I reckon it's fine for Gray to crack on. Looking at the clip I don't think the ref saw exactly what happened, as he turned away momentarily in full confidence the professional Premier League footballer wouldn't guff up something he's done countless times before. But he was right to conclude Gray kicked the ball twice.
I agree, the ref didn't see the original kick. All he saw was Gray kicking the ball twice. Like I say, technically it should have been retaken, but once he gave Tranmere a freekick it makes Gray look like a complete idiot. Put it this way, had this been the 100 metres in the Olympics, it would have been seen as a false start. I understand how it happened. It's not because Gray can't kick a ball back a few yards, it's because he tried to stop himself from kicking the ball before the whistle went, but tapped it forward instead of waiting that extra second. He was overeager that's all. I can't throw him under the bus for that. But it's another joke moment where everyone is laughing at Watford. It's all over the media today.
Surprised, after an 18m senior player on £70,000 A WEEK wearing the captain's armband puts in a display like that against lower league 1 opposition? Yeah, I nearly fell over.
If the ref did not see the original kick then how could he see him kick twice? Surely all he saw was a kick from the wrong place? Gray should of known he could not kick it a 2nd time, if the first was a genuine mistake of kicking the ball before the whistle he should of just moved the ball back to the centre spot and told the ref he went early. Either way the ref should of just made him take it again, giving a free kick did not really help him out of a silly situation.
Without actually being the referee, I can only think he’s assumed he kicked it twice else how would the ball been where it was before he kicked it a second time? From the replay it’s clear the referee wasn’t looking at Gray kicking the ball the first time. Gray is not the sharpest tool in the box and compounded the error by kicking it again. He should have said “sorry I kicked the ball before the whistle” and I’m sure the referee would have given him the benefit of the doubt and just have had the kickoff retaken.
As someone who has at least attempted to quell the disquiet about Gray on here in recent weeks, even I can make sense of the reaction since last night to him. It’s not a case of ‘coming to my senses’ as some are saying because all the things I said weren’t a defence of Gray as a player - I just think some of the criticism was needlessly distasteful. And jumping on his back for 5 minutes after Villa was mad - he was way down the list of things to be annoyed about when taking that game in isolation. He shouldn’t be the singular scapegoat for last nights performance. But he was a big part of it. Dominated by a 38y/o League One CB and not a shot at goal. Uninspiring as a captain to the younger lads and outplayed by most of them. He just cannot he defended this time.
Surely we must have a striker in the youth team who has more ability than Gray? If not, the future is bleak.
What some of you lot don't understand is that as a striker you require service. The 3 managers that have come in this season have decided that Gray can not provide enough goals compared to Deeney up front so is being used as an impact sub for about 10 - 15 mins each game. So he is required to provide instant gratification in very few minutes to some fans else get criticised by the haters. The 3 managers have decided that with service provided by players like Sarr, Delefeo, Doucoure,Gray can only come on as a sub which is fair enough. They all know or knew what's going on the training ground, I don't. However be advised that a striker in any team in the top flight would struggle for a remotely good goal return playing 10 mins or so as a sub with little or no full game time in the first team to get match sharpness and get some confidence. By playing in a 'reserve' team he is then asked to score goals, having had little time on the pitch in first team games, whilst being provided a service by reserve midfielders. So last night it was Dele Bashiru/Hinds, Pedro, Hungbo. You don't need a degree to understand that if 3 managers don't think he can get into the first team whilst getting service from Sarr, Delefeo, Doucoure then the chances of goals with the other 3 will be less because the quality of service will be less ,coupled with the lack of sharpness and confidence by not getting starts in the first team. Yes, yes we all know his technical limitations when controlling the ball outside the box, however that's never been his strength. I'm with the majority for an upgrade in strikers but I would rather try and find a player better than Deeney rather than him having this untouchable aura because he is captain. We require proper competition for ALL positions and not be scared of what a player has done for the club up to this point. No player is bigger than the club. This is likely to happen (if it does happen) in the summer.
We would all like a better striker to force TD out of the team, as this would be an upgrade on what we have. The problem is other current players had the chance to take ownership of the 1st choice striker while TD was out injured, but no one proved themselves a better option.
I don't think being 1st choice over Deeney is going to be easy whichever way you look at it . If you look at Man City for example, Gabriel Jesus was scoring goals for Aguero whilst Aguero was injured but is back on the bench again. If a manager decides one player is better than the other then taking opportunities doesn't guarantee anything. Deeney has the added advantage of being our captain and leader so wont be easy to dislodge. I fear that until he is 'past it' we may be stuck with him so to speak unless the owners /recruiters are brave and back with cash. I'm not undermining Deeney's contribution in that last sentence, just emphasising it wont be easy.
We play with one striker and at the moment that striker is and will continue to be Deeney, so why do we need him when he's been so woefully incompetent and we have Welbeck almost back, Pedro who has come in and also Success? Just let him go.
I’m not against him going. It’s not the point I’m about to make. But Welbeck has never shown he can stay fit. Joao Pedro is 18 and largely unknown. And Success is as bad as Gray but with a worse attitude - plus he is close to leaving if rumours are to be believed. Realistically none of them can be considered trustworthy back-up. I’m not saying Gray can - but using the others as an excuse to get rid doesn’t really work. He needs replacing if he goes. But no one will be shedding many tears if we don’t either.
