[LOANED OUT] Adalberto Penaranda

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by Burnsy, Sep 2, 2019.

  1. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    I also wonder if they are just finding less of these diamond in the rough players because now there are a lot more clubs fishing in the same pond as them.

    Previously they were one of the few European clubs scouting the smaller clubs in these regions, and now any club can do it via statistical scouting and other modern methods.

    Mendes has done fine replicating the model at Valencia, Porto, Atletico, Rio Ave etc. This season they have started spending big on unproven players, but before that they didn't really.
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  2. WeveGotSteviePalmerNo1

    WeveGotSteviePalmerNo1 Academy Graduate

    So much writing about Penaranda! amazing.
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  3. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    We needed a replacement for the Luis Suarez thread.
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! and Burnsy like this.
  4. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    Every Silva lining has a cloud...
     
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  5. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    Timbers, Klein Lust and wfc4ever like this.
  6. IRB

    IRB THe artist formally know as ImRonBurgundy?

    The Venezuelan Andre
     
  7. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Played against Phil Foden in that U20 World Cup final.

    Guaranteed 100% that if Penaranda had been at City, he'd not be stinking up Sofia at his 5th loan club and 63rd different coach of his career.

    A textbook example of our inability to bring young players of any quality through and the cost of our club structure.

    I don't blame him for not giving a **** at all.
     
    wfcmoog, Chewitt, Jack5 and 7 others like this.
  8. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I don’t disagree that Watford FC has a poor record of bringing young players through recently, but I’m afraid if a player, or person for that matter, doesn’t have the drive to succeed in a competitive environment he will inevitably fall by the wayside. I don’t think you can pin Peneranda’s failure to develop entirely on Watford.
     
  9. Robert Peel

    Robert Peel Squad Player

    It was only a friendly, but that doesn't really change much.
     
  10. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    In all sports players can peak at a young age and never improve.
    One of my friends was No.4 in the world at 12& Under but never transferred that to the other junior age groups let alone the senior game.
    What is alarming is the number of our players that this happens to,Success,Bertie,Oulare,Uche. A seemingly endless conveyor belt of underachievement.
     
  11. He doesn't want to be loaned out to 3rd rate teams in backwater leagues year after year he wants to play for Watford
     
  12. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    It surely says at least as much about our scouting as it does our ability to progress youth players once they're through the door - we just can't stop ourselves from picking up mentally-weak reprobate after mentally-weak reprobate, more interested in failing to shag an orgy of prostitutes thanks to an overdose of Baileys or setting the world record for loan fees received for themselves than actually being a professional footballer.

    Again - somehow like we're playing at being a club/scouting system/youth academy rather than actually being one.
     
    The Recluse likes this.
  13. The lack of almost any success bringing young players through suggests at least part of the problem lies with the club.
     
  14. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    I think we have had as many youth team coaches in the Pozzo era as 1st team managers!

    This might be normal but hardly helps consistency and continuity .
     
  15. El distraído

    El distraído Johnny Foreigner

    Sending Peñaranda to one of the party capitals of Eastern Europe is like bringing a chubby girl to a buffet.

    It's not going to end well.
     
    wfcmoog, foxywfc and Chewitt like this.
  16. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    68 players had 'come through' our academy and subsequently left when @The Recluse put together the figures when I asked him back in August.

    I guess all 68 had an attitude problem or lacked the drive to succeed.
     
    poakley likes this.
  17. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    If you look at where the majority of those players ended up playing it says as much about the quality of player to work with alongside the coaching standards at the academy as much as anything.

    In fact not many players released by the club as youngsters have suddenly had an upward career trajectory so I'm not sure where the club can be blamed too much in general except maybe in initial recruitment.

    They're far from blameless but the standard of player being churned out is League 1 at best with the majority more suited to non-league.

    As an individual case, Penaranda may have had early promise but as I just posted on another thread of his, his attitude and/or lack of professionalism has certainly played a part in his lack of development.
     
  18. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Perhaps he needs to show a tiny inkling of form so that **** teams aren’t the only ones prepared to take him ? Or even warrant a place on our bench ?
     
  19. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    To be fair he scored a cracker against Coventry and got sent out again, bit harsh.
     
  20. I think we just have to agree to disagree.

    Not every every prospect will make it, but we appear to have no plan for any of them.

    We stockpile players like Peneranda, Quina, Success, TDBashiru in and then hawk them around crap league loan after crap league loan in the hope one might make it.

    They need to be under the clubs wing, and when needed discipline, and being coached by the best we can afford to give them. Then, when it's right for them to go on loan it needs to be to the right club in the right league for the right reason.
     
  21. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Penaranda is our best striker. I'm yet to be convinced otherwise.
     
  22. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    You're 18, you've only ever lived in Venezuela for the first 18 years of your life.

    You get picked up by an Italian team with wages that can instantly change your family's life. You immediately get sent to Spain on loan, that's your mother tongue and you're buzzing to continue your development. Happy.

    You make your debut as the youngest player to represent the club, two weeks later you net a brace, the youngest non-European to do so since a certain Lionel Messi. Delighted.

    Forward two months, the family who owns the club you play for and are owned by, sell you to their latest project, flying high in the so-called best league in the world, Watford FC. Money increases and dream finally comes true, you will be playing in the Premier League. Top of the world.

    Your loan spell at Granda comes to an end, the club gets sold to outside ownership so you can't continue your development there for now and you can't play in England without a work permit. You go back to Udinese for a season-long loan and without a clear plan for development. Satisfied.

    You can't get into the Udinese team, so you get up and go to Spain again, to Malaga. Who have sold all their best assets and are on a steady decline. However it's a good move to get a permit and get to England. Confused but won't complain.

    You didn't make many matchday squads as they didn't fancy you and you got injured for a small period, it's a shame but you learned how to deal with a difficult situation. You can't wait to get out of there get started next season now you're fit and ready to go. Your loan gets extended at a toxic and volatile club. Very confused.

    You go to the U20 World Cup with your country, have a good tournament. Watford fans are buzzing. You miss a penalty in the final but great experience with your friends and team mates. Your stock goes up. Buzzing.

    Predictably, Malaga come rock bottom the next season. You don't have a great time. You're distraught.

    You don't play for six months, can't remember why. You do make the bench for two Premier League games though.

    You finally make your debut for your parent club in the world's oldest cup competition. This is the moment. It's all going to get better. You feature in the fourth round too. End of the season, you didn't play much and didn't develop much. Disappointed.

    It's a new season, you come on and score your first goal for your parent club and it's a cracker. Buzzing!

    Five days later you get sent on loan to Belgium. What the ****?

    Doesn't go that well, another foreign country. You're young, million miles from home, you don't know anyone. Torrid loan spell over, you come back to England. Your club has another new manager you need to impress, he's big and English and looks at you funny. There's the coronavirus and a worldwide pandemic. Your parent club gets relegated, it's bad news but slightly selfishly you think you'll have a chance to impress now, it's a league more suited to your ability, the best players in front of you like Pereyra and Deuolufeu will leave, offering you an opportunity.

    You don't get in the squad against Oxford, you play against Newport on a horrible pitch with the rest of the cannon fodder aka Jerome Sinclair & Glen Murray. You don't make any of the matchday squads. You get shipped off to.... Bulgaria!? You don't want to be there, why did you ever come to Watford? You hate Gino. You have no plan, nobody checking in, no loan manager. You're alone.

    A short tale on how to ruin a promising young players career, I believe he holds some blame but I just do not see where we helped at all. I think we take loans for financial gain, who the **** thought he'd learn anything useful in Belgium & Bulgaria? He could've been sent to a League 1 or 2 club surely? Someone would've taken him. We've got form at finding rubbish matches for loans, I think Wilmot to Swansea was the only decent loan we've managed. Football equivalent of blood on our hands.


     
  23. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    100%! Loan isn't, here you go, go play some football.

    You have to look at the surroundings, the environment, the coaching staff, the facilities, the location, the loan clubs plan and focous. Track record of developing players etc, etc.

    Then you have to have someone at base, checking in on the phone, on Zoom, going to visit him.

    I don't think we do much of that, if any.
     
  24. hornetfan

    hornetfan Academy Graduate

    Penaranda scored two goals and (I think) also had some assists during the U-20 World Cup in 2017. He was one of the outstanding players in the tournament, but he broke his metatarsal during the final. He played on with the injury and it may have been a factor in the missed penalty, but he did not play again for many months after the U-20 World Cup because of the time needed to recover from his broken metatarsal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2021
  25. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Tbf, Dele-Bashiru could have been a key member of this squad had he not got injured. Didn't help him with the injury mind you, maybe his injury wouldn't have been so severe if he'd come off as soon as he got injured!
     
  26. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    Think lack of proper development plans for players one of the Pozzo's biggest failings.
    They are seemingly just seen as commodities to gain loan fees and if possible increase in value without any clear path into the Watford first team squad.
    Because of this players don't get continuity with their coaching and if they do show potential like Estupinian and Suarez they don't develop any affinity with their parent club and want to leave rather than come into the fold
     
    Hairyfrog likes this.
  27. Hairyfrog

    Hairyfrog Squad Player

    Fantastic assesment.
     
    wfcSinatra likes this.
  28. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    That's certainly true and won't be helping anyone coming through the academy.

    Trying to think logically about why that should be, I do think any planning for the U23s & under teams/players, such as it is, has changed several times since coming away from the Harefield model. And let's be honest, that wasn't the roaring success we'd like to think either with very few players having careers at the top level after coming through that system.

    In the last couple of seasons there have been multiple incomings at U23 level from premiership clubs which was an improvement on bringing players from lower league sides.

    There was also the brief period in 2018 with Andy Scott in charge where it was said we'd move to a 'B' team model but that never materialised.

    What I've seen of the U18s this season suggests an improvement in the coaching levels for the younger academy recruits as they all look very good from a technical point. With Richard Shaw coming in this month to work with players from U16s up to the U23s, it looks like we may be looking more seriously at the domestic set up once more. The proof will be in the next couple of seasons as to how many of the promising U18s make the step up to the U23s and, hopefully, into the first team squad.
     
  29. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    I think of all the myriad examples of the phenomenon, Dele-Bashiru is probably genuinely the player who has most had his reputation enhanced through absence that I've ever seen.

    Now this is not to denigrate him as a player or a professional at all, but he is a 21-year-old who had made one senior appearance (as a substitute, in the cup) ever before arriving here. Once he did so, he played a total of about 200 minutes, 60 of which were in the league, and in that time he basically showed us that he was a competent footballer and a tidy-enough player who seemed from very early indications to be able to cope with the adult game having never been involved in it before.

    Now, you can't go on a midfield transfer post without half the posters lamenting the loss of him and talking about how we wouldn't need a Capoue replacement if he'd stayed fit, nor a creative midfielder, because he would of course be starting in all midfield positions all the time and taking the mantle on his shoulders leading us to promotion. It's a tiny bit baffling - I can't really work out what that kind of opinion can possibly be based on, other than that he used to be owned by Man City.
     
  30. RS2

    RS2 Squad Player

    Nothing screams quality player more than scoring against Coventry. Big mistake by the club.
     
  31. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    We haven't even produced one single player from the youth academy to play regular first team football. Not one from 68+ players. I refuse to believe that is exclusively down to their ability or attitude.

    I'd go as far as saying that we are actively impacting these players careers by not taking it seriously. Yet our fans will soon cry when the next decent prospect ****s off to another club and moan that no 'good' kids join the club.

    Here's hoping you're right about this Richard Shaw guy.
     
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  32. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    They aren’t supposed to come into the fold. They’re supposed to be sold for £££s. It’s a money making exercise not a farm to grow players for WFC.
     
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  33. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Coventry reserves in the Mickey Mouse cup when Cov were 2(?) leagues below us ?
     
  34. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    If more people just understood this and stopped thinking that we're chasing honours with a Watford scarf waving hierarchy, we'd all get along more swimmingly around here.
     
    The Recluse likes this.
  35. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    Watford have failed on many fronts but the reason I replied to you the way I did was because you said all blame should lay at the clubs feet for Penaranda not making better use of any early promise.

    I must take issue once again though with regard to him and the myth of crap league loans. Serie A, La Liga and even the chance to play in the Premiership when he was finally able to pull on the Watford shirt suggests he's had a fair crack of the whip with playing in top divisions. That he can't make it in the less attractive leagues as well suggests he hasn't the ability or the determination we'd all like him to have.

    There are possible similar misconceptions with Quina and Success too. We've seen the highlights where they've shown they have something but a succession of coaches have left them out. Again, they have talent but not the ability to string performances together either in a run of games or even in a single match. That Quina can't do that in the Championship shows why he was never really given a chance a league above.

    On a more general note and not aimed at you La_tempesta_cielo_68, as well as the club and the players themselves both sharing responsibility for why their careers have stalled, some blame has to be apportioned to the players agents & representatives. The Pozzo's aren't knew in the football world and the model they've built Udinese's success on was buy cheap (& rough), polish and sell. All the while making full use of the transfer market and player trading. The agents are there not to just facilitate transfers but to guide and help players when they're struggling both on & off the field. They are advisers so what are they advising exactly?

    On a similar theme and on the basis the plethora of young talent have become disillusioned with Watford, not many seem to ask for a transfer despite their apparent mistreatment and getting lost on the loan treadmill. The only time this seems to have happened was when we dropped out of the Premiership. So it looks like if the club are using the players for gain then the same can be said of the players when looking at the examples of Suarez and Estupinan.
     

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