[SOLD] Abdoulaye Doucoure

I still think we have done well, he aint worth the money as Everton will find out.

 

It's a very sad day when one of our best ever midfielders get sold, yet half the dimwits on here are chuffed about it.

 

He's no Roger Joslyn.

 

He wasn’t even our best midfielder last season, and when the crunch came last season, he did nothing to pull us out of the mire

 

There were genuinely a few blues happy to see the back of Lukaku

 

With Brexit still on the horizon that could be an awfully long time.

 

I have said this before, in this thread even I think, but I cannot believe people are claiming he is crap now he is going. Doucoure has been magnificent for us and we have nobody currently that will get close to replacing his energy and drive, we will miss him more than most seem to think, not sure what level of player people expect if he isn't good enough.

Yes he maybe wasn't as effective last season as previously but he still contributed as much if not more than most, he also spent half the season as a CAM which I don't think anybody would suggest is his best position, more power and drive than skill and guile but he did it and gave it his best shot. It was his athleticism that carried us up the pitch more often than not last season, either carrying it or being the break out to support.

Personally I am a little disappointed with the fee I would have hoped for closer to £30m but we weren't in the best negotiating position and a strange market so if that's what it is then so be it. Many fees are in installments these days and many, including us, simply borrow against the balance so that won't hold anything back.

Thanks for your efforts Doucs and good luck.

 

Ake. I know he is 25 but not a great difference in age.

 

He doesn’t count as overseas either I don’t think?

 

Indeed. Loathe as I am to disagree with @Relegation Certs on anything, Doucoure was our 3rd best midfielder last season at best, in a year when the whole team was largely despicable.

Sure, when he first came into the side he was a revelation and had a great 18 months or so, but since he went off the boil, he looked like a midfield Andre Gray.

My personal view is that we had several players like Doucoure who are capable of playing at a higher level, but who contributed greatly, for one reason or another, to us being terrible last season and being relegated. If those players have a decent market value, it's in our interests to realise that value and invest it in players who are perhaps less talented on paper, but will give more to the team on the pitch and in the long term.

Of course, the gaping hole in my logic, is that this requires our owners and recruitment team to sign good replacements, which we all know is completely impossible.

 

He got to the point at the end of the season where he lost all shooting ability, and arguably struggled to even kick a ball towards goal. I'm hoping for Doucoure's sake it was just he couldn't be bothered and lost all confidence, as he doesn't seem a bad bloke and as others have said, he hasn't kicked off to get a move as far as we know, but he massively declined in ability last year.

 

Loathe as I am to disagree with one of @wfcmoog 's login accounts, the guy had an outstanding season or two for us, is then told he won't be getting a bonus, won't be allowed to leave when he wants to, and no we won't be buying any half decent defenders or strengthening the squad, and spends the season in a relegation battle at his peak age of 26. I can understand why his focus and performances might have dipped last season and why he will want to leave and reflect on a wasted season here. He was the best box to box midfielder I've seen in a watford shirt.

 

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that he passed the ball more to the opposition than to his own team, he had one brilliant season with us but he has been cack ever since IMO.

 

Well, whatever the reasons, and they are pure speculation, the evidence on the pitch, which we both agree on, was that he was terrible.

I don't know about the bonus situation well enough, and certainly will not defend our owners if they did, indeed renege on an agreement to pay for the previous season's successes.

However, if Doucoure of 18/19 had been playing in last season's team, instead of the misfiring misfit we saw, I don't believe we'd have gone down. OK it would have papered over the issues you meant about the abject failures in recruitment, but whatever the reasons for it, he was crap and we got relegated.

Many of us agreed at the end of last season, that the toxic, dysfunctional team that took us down needed to be disassembled and rebuilt. In my opinion, that meant Doucoure, Pereyra, Deeney and one or two others were priorities to get shifted on, to not only get rid of the core of the team that took us down, but also provide funds to rebuild.

I'm not whitewashing over the great times Doucoure had with us, but they were long past. I don't begrudge him moving and I hope he kicks on, for his sake, but I'm not sorry to lose him now.

 

I blame the owners for his decline. He hasn't turned to dung, he just went off the boil after our swarthy owners broke a promise that he could leave as soon as a bigger club came along. As soon as that promise is shown to be worthless the entire pozzo scheme collapses in a heap. If players don't think they will be allowed to leave after giving us a few good years, then 1. no one will want to join us, and 2. the rest of the players who are looking forward to moving on to bigger and better things become disillusioned and start putting in half-hearted performances because they know they have been lied to, and we get relegated. And it's hard to blame them.

The players are despicable, of course they are. But that's the price we pay for having the pozzos for owners. The conveyor belt model is perfectly acceptable to me. Bring in ace youth players for peanuts, sell them when they become ace established players. Rinse and repeat. Yes this means we will have a team full of hateful chits who couldnt give a toss about the club, but so be it.

I cannot fathom why the pozzos broke the promise to doucoure. But I have a feeling it's because they got all giddy after getting to a cup final, and forgot who they, and we, are.

But doucoure IS ace.

 

I don't think we disagree on much. I agree our owners are probably to blame. I also agree that if they blocked a move for Doucoure, then not only was that dishonourable, it has also cost them probably 13m in his saleable value, because I am sure we'd have got £45m after the cup final.

Doucoure was ace for us, but he, like the rest of the squad from last season is tainted now, for me. I'd have been happy to see a new owner and manager come in, sell the lot of them and rebuild from scratch, even if it meant this season was purely about survival with next season the one to push on.

However, nobody will buy most of our shyte, so we can only sell the few who will attract interest. Doucoure is one of them and I'm glad he's gone. Good move for him and for Watford IMO.

 

We will miss his drive, energy and durability but he lacked ability to see a pass and held onto ball too long at times.

Shame he's off but we need a few players off the book

 

We will forever be united by our loathing of the owners.

To be honest the only thing about this sale that has made me happy is the fact the owners will be trousering a lower fee, and they know it's all down to their gross mishandling of the situation.

 

I'm going to open up a can of worms here potentially, but following this thread has made me surprised about the criticism of the owners - around the time of the Silva and Richarlison stuff, I'd barely ever read or heard a bad word about them from Watford fans. Is this still sore from the Pearson decision etc, or does it run deeper than that? I'll take this question to another thread if it veers miles off topic.

 

My main issue with him was that I didn’t really know what type of midfielder he was in the end - one game he’d look like a box-to-box type and then another he’d look something entirely different. He was never a No.10/CAM but that’s where we put him as we had to accommodate an in-form Hughes in his better position. Is he a goal scorer? Not really, but he’s not a huge tackler either. He’s undoubtedly a talented player but he was losing his way as we were playing terribly and didn’t know how to utilise him to get his best. And I agree, we likely messed him around the previous summer which won’t have helped. Kudos to him for never properly kicking off if we did break promises made to him.

 

I don't think it's anything to do with the Peason decision.
No-one can argue that we have had a long run in the prem that wasn't expected before they arrived but the main criticisms are;
1/ Lack of communication with their customer base - us. They only seem to appear from behind a rock when we have a little success and they can talk about how great they are and state objectives are to be the "best of the rest" etc. Our official website still claims we've signed Gueye who is now playing for Marseille.
2/ We have less cash to spend than most but poor recuitment decisions over the last 18 months have cost us relegation.
3/ Endless conveyor belt of unknown foreign players who 95% of the time have no affinity or connection with the club or its fans
4/ Ruthless attitude to coach appointments. Any bad run of results results in a change, making us less attractive for decent managers. Appointees know we are just a stepping stone and they have to work with what they are given. Owner and CE never take the blame ....or the bullet.
5/ Lack of understanding about who is doing what at the club - Giraldi, ex football director Roy, etc - the lack of communication means we don't understand the structure.

 

They've been great for the club in terms of our recent success on the pitch and the improvements to the ground, but the price we have paid for that is having a team full of the most hateful players we've ever had. It's tolerable while we are doing well, but in a relegation season it's unbearable.

I don't think anyone cares about what happened with pearson.

 

Goes deeper than that but it’s a question that divides fans. Some will endlessly praise the owner, mainly for saving us from almost potential ruin, so he and the board can do no wrong - ‘remember where we could have been!’ .... but some will endlessly criticise them too and believe the owner and board have long had the kudos of saving us and can’t dine out on it anymore.

For me the truth is somewhere in the middle - I will never forget how they saved us and delivered PL football. But I don’t buy all the promises made by them either. And their method of working was always going to be slammed when it eventually failed - heavy expenditure on players that are seen as no more than commodities and not enough spent on players to be part of the team. A mish-mash squad of players with different personalities and aspirations. Spending huge money on players that weren’t necessarily needed and penny-pinching in areas of dilapidation elsewhere in the squad. They recruited players on a ticket of being a ‘stepping-stone’ club and were very public about it. Which is fine - but you’ll always be viewed as that. We publicised it far too much. And took the same approach with coaches, which means no one really embeds themselves in the club as they only expect to be here for 1-2 years. It builds a disconnect. Many fans have wanted more stability within the coaching and squad - but it’s fallen on deaf ears - I think most fans saw relegation coming long before those at the club did. And they did very little to stop it when they did realise. Just kept plowing on with the same mentality and ethos - ‘this squad of misfits, led by Troy’s awesome captain skills will keep us up’. We continually sunk down the table when coming down the home stretch at the end of every season - yet never, ever addressed why. It was always going to catch up with us. The owners and board were asleep at the wheel...

And all the while, one cornerstone of a club - communication between hierarchy and fans - has eroded to almost nothing, which gives the sense that fans thoughts and opinions no longer matter. It’s their club after all. So whereas once upon a time, their words carried weight and you’d put faith in them, I now find their words to be hollow - and only positive actions will see that change.

What they’ve done with the club off the pitch can only be applauded - they’ve built a club to be proud of IMO. Sadly they’ve forgotten that its not a social club and it should still be built around its primary function - playing football. And they’ve lost their way with that.

Just my opinion.

 

It's massive exaggeration, as his 78.4% pass completion stats for last season show.

But go on, tell us some more about what a terrible player he was and how you're glad to see the back of him - I don't think anyone's quite heard enough about it.

 

A great player on his day, but when was honestly the last time he was on his day?

On his current form, he is expendable. Who ISN'T expendable however is Will Hughes. He's the future of this midfield. I would be far more gutted if we sold Hughes.

Thank you for the memories, Mr Doucouré, and I wish you well at Everton.

 

We'll miss his energy and tempo.
Let's be frank he's not disguised his wish to leave for the last eighteen months,he has been transparent in that regard and could have acted with more class.
However CA was a great player and clearly a good coach so if anyone can improve Doucoure it's likely to be him.
That said I doubt even Zeus could improve his poor technique but we shall see.

 

That's why I find it a bit odd when some say he hasn't agitated for a move. Of course he didn't throw his toys out of the pram completely but he hardly hid the fact he wanted out.

 

I’m not going to knock him. He’s contributed to some great moments over the last couple of years. I’m not sure he quite fits an Ivic tikka taka style so the time is right for him to leave and I wish him well. The value is about right - us and Everton are both getting a decent deal from it.

 

bump

 

I think it’s just meant (from my perspective anyway) that he didn’t kick off spectacularly as some players have in football over similar situations. I was always annoyed with his public flirtations with a move to a bigger club in the French media - but given we probably made/broke promises to him, I don’t know how much I blame him. But we don’t know for sure what the agreement was from the clubs perspective.

When you set yourselves up as a ‘stepping stone’ club, we can hardly moan when players speak with the same mindset.

He had that one real standout season for us - but my opinion is that a player of genuine class kicks on from there and can look special even if those around him are poor and the club are under-performing. He regressed back into the pack of average players at the club which makes me think while he has talent, he needs to have a better mentality to be the very best he can.

 

Where's this Ivic tiki taka style thing come from? From all accounts he's primarily an organised, efficient coach rather than an expansive one, as evidenced by the incredible defensive record of his last team.

 

I don’t think Doucs is one I could label as not trying to be honest.

He wanted his move that much was clear but I can’t say he ran any less than normal.

The team was just demoralised and when the players behind you and players in front of you aren’t cutting it, what are you meant to do?

He’s not good enough / creative enough to drag a team to victory single handedly, to see the best of him the rest of the team has to chip in.

I think he’ll do very well at Everton. Richarlison and DCL will be pressing and harrying from the front. Allan is excellent and will be the Capoue to Doucs this season but even better. He’ll have James Rodriguez an excellent technician to supply and four competent defenders behind him. As well as a three (?) time Champions League winning manager who appears to be building a project and is a wonderful tactician.

Rather than four different nobodies with different ideas whilst a fat Italian undermines each and every one of them employed to set the game plan.

He will be a success.


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He was an exceptional player, who didn't play to his ability for at least the last two years. Months of poor perfomance can be acceptable (just about) when the club is in turmoil behind the scenes, but years of underperforming most certainly isn't. When it goes on for so long, it is an integral fault in his attitude and only good management will help sort that out.

If he is managed well, he will be a star and Everton will easily get their money's worth. If he isn't, they won't, it is as simple as that.

 

Excellent on his day and largely did very well for us.
As long as he doesn't disparage us in the future I will certainly applaud him on any return.