A Question Of Interest

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by The Voice of Reason, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Hi guys, I know there are a few of you on here who really like to delve into facts and figures, so I'd like to pose you this question: -

    Does WFC deserve the Media led assertion that we are the leading club for sacking managers?

    I don't know for sure, but I think it might be undeserved.
     
  2. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I suspect, with some research, you could come up with a statistic that shows some clubs are at least our equal. Off the top of my head I’m thinking perhaps Forest, Leeds, Birmingham or QPR. However the thing that cemented this reputation in the minds of the media was first the events of 2014, which to some extent were unfortunate given Garcia’s heart problems, but then crucially the sackings of Jokanovic and QSF who had got us promoted and kept us up respectively. On the face of it these decisions seemed odd, but the media rarely look deeply at any club outside the big few.
     
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  3. RMT79

    RMT79 Academy Graduate

    Where we are ruthless is that we employ a manager to do a specific job e.g. all the managers upto and including Joka were employed to get us promoted. Joka did that and was replaced. The board and owners knew that tactically and with the players we had Jokas tactics would see us relegated from the prem (a point proved years later with Fulham) so they appoint Flores .... he was tasked with keeping us up in season 1 with a rigid, solid, Unspectacular side that could grind out results .... he did that and then was sacked because the next stage in our growth required a different manager with different qualities as we started to build a side with better players .... in comes Walter ...... it didnt quite work as hoped So in game Silva ..... it started to work until Everton poked their noses in. Then this is where it started to go wrong as Gracia was meant to steady the ship and limp us home to league survival ..... but he surprised everybody and appeared better than that for 12 months but he wasn’t the plan ........ anyway that all goes **** up and we revert to Flores again and it doesn’t work because our squad of players was too attacking to be effective at Flores’s defensive tactics....... and then it all goes crazier still and we are left relegated ...... why ? On reflection I believe it started as soon as we became less ruthless and stuck with Gracia - his success was not part of the growth plan and we didn’t know what to do when our bubble burst and the board was caught out as they were too busy patting each other on the back thinking we were now established and bigger boy than we were ..... hence we got a bloody nose and smacked down last season.
    So yes we get through managers but there was and is a strategy to it that others don’t want to consider or try to understand because it is different.
     
  4. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    They weren’t that many complaints when Gracia and Flores got sacked but because Pearson was a British coach who had done ok for a while there was uproar in the media.
     
  5. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    There may be something in that but the uproar was surely caused more by the fact that there were only 2 games left in the season.
     
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  6. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I always thought our end game was Walter, as in the aim was to get to the PL and also play attractive football, so up until him I always thought the owners had a master plan and knew exactly what they were doing. So any reputation they had was completely unjust and there were plenty of clubs far far worse in terms of managerial churn.

    Beyond Walter I realised there was no master plan at all, or at least they didn’t have an idea beyond Walter as far as where they ultimately wanted long term. It’s now abundantly clear they hire managers based on the here and now rather than the long term.

    Silva was just good timing, had a reasonable spell with Hull and was available.

    Javi was appointed because of what he did with Malaga, took a poor side to lose table and (IIRC) only lost a point to the big two. As it turned out he did well, but had a bad record against the top sides so the reasoning for hiring him didn’t actually carry over to us.

    And that’s where it went spectacularly wrong. If anything contrary to popular media opinion Gino was too soft and went against his usual instincts. Take the cup final out of the equation and every other previous manager probably gets removed at the end of that season due to the bad run of form. But more than likely because of the cup run Javi gets a pass and the hideous form spills over into last season. That decision leaves us in a dire situation with no replacement to hand (javi was lined up before Silva was sacked) and naturally no decent managers out of a job.

    You can see the logic behind appointing QSF, but it failed spectacularly, however it links back to the previous paragraph. Gino going against his instincts and actually not sacking a manger when he probably should’ve, contrary to wider media opinion, meant we had little other option.

    Pearson was almost a master stroke, but let’s face it, money and pride meant we went for BFS lite and ultimately that cost us dearly as well.

    In summary, as far as the fortunes of Watford as concerned I think if Javi is sacked sooner we would actually be in a better position. Might seem harsh but it’s very likely true.
     
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  7. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Yes true mainly because people were sure we’d stay up with him in charge.

    Guess we’ll never know but I don’t think he was sacked simply because they felt we had no hope of survival without a change.
     
  8. Keighley

    Keighley Squad Player

    I’m not sure it was the case that the media thought we would necessarily stay up with Pearson, I think it was more that (absent other factors) it looked like an utterly desperate last throw of the dice with virtually no time for any change to be effected (and thus very likely to be totally futile). Off the top of my head, I can’t recall another manager being sacked with so few games left (someone will no doubt correct me).

    I think the Britishness played a part in the media reaction but there would still have been a pretty stunned media reaction if we had sacked, say, QSF with two games remaining.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  9. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    Pearson obviously put himself in a position where his holding of the job was untenable!, if not he would have been kept on! I don't remember hearing anyone on this forum saying we would have stayed up had he not been sacked!
     
  10. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    Was there not uproar from the neutrals when we sacked the manager who got us 11th and a cup final?
     
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  11. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Reservist

    I feel as though Silva was the moment we were really trying to kick on, QSF had done a job, Walter was...at the very least not a disaster, but finally we had someone we thought we could build around for the long-term, and look how that turned out! From then on, it was just a succession of short-term appointments, Javi of course being a success, especially in one full season here, but QSF being an unmitigated disaster, ultimately leaving us with just a little bit too much to do under Pearson despite the great start under him. They've pretty much all complained about something to do with the interference, or transfers, or have had players brought in for big money who don't fit their system, so it all points to jumbled up thinking on the Pozzos part really, we've had some seriously good managers walk through our doors, yet it's ended sourly with all of them...
     
  12. a19tgg

    a19tgg Squad Player

    I wonder, if we’d beaten Leeds on that day would we have kept Zola?
     
  13. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Correct. See my post #2. That was the point there was no redemption for the club’s reputation.
     

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