Probably talked about this in other threads, but I thought having one thread where we can discuss what we feel as fans happened in the meeting and "if" that was the turning point could be a good idea. My personal thoughts on it are that after we somehow left St Andrews with a point in the bank, everyone looked at Deeney like he was holding a salad and thought "problem solved". Not congratulating whoever it was that injured him, but him out of the team has been a massive positive, be that on team morale or having one of the dumb bells removed. Then we hear from a few players on Hive Live Xtra that a "meeting" had taken place to clear the air. This I am certain did happen, but who spear-headed it is not known. Was the sudden change in formation down to the side, Xisco or the fact Deeney was out? Whatever the reason is behind it all, we are a team transformed. You only have to look at the celebration when we beat Cardiff to understand what has happened since Coventry.
It is possible (and I would even suggest likely) that the team meeting and the shift to 4-3-3 were actually separate occurrences. The team meeting (it seems) was player led and focussed on attitude etc, whereas Deeney's injury enabled and encouraged a shift to 4-3-3 that Xisco likely favored anyway considering that was how he set up his Tbilsi side.
I’d like to imagine there was some sort of coup by the players. If all of us fans could see what a horrific albatross Deeney was, surely it wouldn’t be lost on the players? So I’d like to think the players said, look, he needs to be out of the team, and miraculously a Coventry player was revealed to have fallen on him and suddenly he’s out for months. Strange considering he’s somehow played several times while needing a knee operation, but something so innocuous has kept him out for so long. I doubt that’s what happened but I like to think it’s what did.
It will certainly be talked about as a turning point in the season, whether it will be talked about in the same breath as Tranmere and Fulham, or whether we'll ruefully concede it came too late in the season a la Pearson's run of form last year is yet to be decided. I can't tell for sure, but I suspect what happened was that Deeney was actually injured, but de facto team leader Cleverley told him to stop playing through the pain as has cost us so much in recent times. It does seem like there was talk of a formation change even at that Coventry game (we were supposedly going to play a system with 3 at the back before we reverted to type with the stagnant 4-4-2), but I don't think that would have been any more effective, maybe at that stage we realised that the only way forward is 4-2-3-1 sans Mr Watford
You mean the 5-0 win at Fulham in 2014/15 that started the great run to automatic promotion? If so, I'd say it was actually Charlton who we beat by the same scoreline, or maybe the second half blitz against Blackpool that really started it all, after Joka told a few home truths to the less committed members of the squad after the poor performances and defeats to Wolves and Huddersfield.
Regarding Huddersfield away, it later transpired that there was a bad landing by the pilot due to the weather conditions and put the players on edge a bit, that may have been why they didn't seem up for that one.
If you listen to the kids on WD18 that interviewed Cleverley, Clevs talks about it. Ekong was the one the initiated the meeting between 3-4 senior players. After they spoke, they spoke with the rest of the players by the sounds of it. Paraphrasing this part, Clevs talks about how they use to be at each other’s throats and criticize each other. Now everyone has each other’s back since that meeting and encouraging one another. Makes sense why Ekong is in the team now. Clevs spoke about his leadership being really good basically. Edit: here’s the link
I'm not surprised that Troost was the ringleader. He hasn't been in the Premier League so he's yet to have his ambitions watered down. The FA Cup Final was probably as good as it was going to get for the seniors at this club. We needed a refresh - starting the season with a lot of players that we were relegated with (mixed with odd tactics) led to stale performances. It's why we were relegated and why we could have so easily put ourselves out of the playoffs. I understand the need for leaders and experienced heads, but we lacked a shared ambition. I think the younger players are now re-igniting the ambitions of a few of the seniors - and there are several notable absentees from the squad now. I was gutted to lose Capoue, but now it is very clear that it was best for both parties. Credit to Xisco and his staff as well. You always wait for a team to "click" tactically, but first they had to "click" mentally and be prepared to fight for each other rather than point and moan.
It was always odd that many fans seem to rue the sale of Doucoure and Capoue whilst at the same time demanding we freshen up. Deeney being injured (above comment about a torn Achilles being something he can play through? Lol) is a coincidence not a valid conspiracy theory. It is a part in the process, but I believe Troy was also involved in the meeting/s. The change in positivity plus formation plus a more "mobile" front three has seen us gain confidence and fluidity. Its ironic that putting a fit Deeney back in the side might not be terrible as he'll get more chances than pre injury. Not that I'd drop Pedro at all, but he's not actually scored that many.
I've got no issue with having to play Deeney if he is fit - based on his level of ability, but it mustn't be accompanied by any type of adjustment on how we play. We must not build the system around him or to accommodate him, and we must not apply his mantra of 'forget about trying to play football, just hoof it up to me and I'll do the rest'. It's his influence that bothers me more than the thought of having to play with a half an average/poor player.
Your post doesn’t make an sense as the ‘Achilles injury’ was caused by the Coventry player falling on him. His ability will be the same as it was before, non existent. In fact after a serious injury and a long lay off it will very likely be even worse. Deeney coming into the team after several months out of the team would be just about as disastrous as it could be all things considered considered. Also if you don’t think Pedro has scored that much you might want to watch this video and try and imagine Troy doing any of it, Pedro has scored enough goals (more than 1) but also contributes a hell of a lot more than Troy does. I know you actually said you wouldn’t drop him, but the fact he hasn’t scored ‘that many’ is a totally irrelevant statement.
He still won't be in the box though so don't see why he'd get more chances. This system is all about mobility of the front three. Deeney's return would kill that. He wouldn't even have been in the position to score the three goals Gray has recently.
It beggars belief how anyone could even entertain the idea of Troy actually being picked to start a game now. Not allowing for anything else (severe lack of talent now being the obvious one) surely that video with Clevs above is enough reason on it own? Troy had been the number one culprit for years for laying into his teammates for not placing the ball in front of his static body somewhere outside the 18 yard box. Setting his severe lack of talent and ability to one side, as well his inability to play up top on his own, thus leaving our midfield overrun whilst simultaneously neutering our attacking threat, would anyone seriously trust him to come back into the team and buy into this new togetherness?? Two scenarios where Troy should play, we only have 10 other players fit, or we’re already promoted.
I would hope a 19 year old from Brazil we spent a lot time of trying to get would be quicker , more skilful and have all round ability would be some want better than a 32 year old with a couple of injuries and not that quick or skilful anyway even at his peak. So should Gray and Success for the money they cost and age they are ..
Yeah, but we’ve got a nice big rest now then 8 games left. Rest and rotation go out the window, our best players start every game, that means Troy doesn’t get near the starting 11 unless we get absolutely shafted with injuries. To even entertain the notion is utterly bizarre. That’s not even allowing for the fact that after two injuries and a lengthy lay off, Troy would be behind even his own normal low standards. We’ve all seen him after pre season.
Yes I don’t think or expect him to play now we have a settled side and playing a certain way that gets the best out of everyone.
He is no more than a bench player now, and I think he could still make a useful contribution as and when needed from that position, but he is definitely not a starter anymore unless we have an injury crisis.
Watching him in matches waving his arms and getting at other players seemed to show why such division and discontent was rife, I cant imagine what he was like in training.
Do you remember the look Hughes gave Deeney at one point in one of the matches. It was not one of joy.
Yup - 8 games left, we all know the team that has been performing so well and that should be the team for the next 8 games. There are players in the team that should be nowhere near a Premier League starting 11 should we go up but for now it should be a clear cut starting 11.
