8 Years Of Pozzo - What Have We Learned?

The summer they took over we were playing in a 3 sided stadium, had nearly been bankrupted by some demented moron, GT had gone awol and our great homegrown hope was Sean Murray. There were plenty of naysayers and doubters when they took over and I remember Papa Pozzo telling fans something along the lines of relax and enjoy it. They promised premier league football and they delivered. 8 years ago Watford fans would've jumped at the chance to start the 20/21 season in a renovated stadium with a strong championship squad and the club avoiding administration/ bankruptcy.
So what have we learnt?
For me the biggest take away is that every PL team apart from the big 6 + Everton and 2 or 3 others (who change season by season) start the new season from scratch and are fighting relegation. No team of our stature can ever consider themselves 'established'. Outside the top 6 (and bizzarely Everton) dynasties rise and fall and ultimately everybody else gets relegated in the end whether they are big or small. Once a club like us thinks they are 'established' complacency sets in, poor decisions are made and the fear of relegation that should be such a strong motivating force is gone. Our biggest weakness this season was we started it thinking we would stay up. To stay up in the PL you have to be willing to fight over every blade of grass and die for the cause. We abjectly failed to do that, led by the leadership disaster zones that are Giraldi and Deeney.

The Pozzos exaggerated the strength of their scouting network. Its extensive, its interesting, it probably makes them a lot of money but its very erratic. Light years behind your Leicesters, your Southamptons and your Wolves. They found 2 gems in Richarlison and Sarr and gave us some amazing players in the champo but in the PL it seemed to be mainly about under paying for transfers and wages for players who could just about do enough off and on to keep us up. Even their best signings have tended to blow hot and cold with often infuriating levels of inconsistency.

Hopefully it'll change in 20/21 but Watford under the Pozzos has been a graveyard for young talent. Dahlburg Peneranda Berguis Success Sinclair Chalobah Dele-Bashiru Pedro Quina Wilmot have all gone sideways or backwards while Richarlison and most likely Sarr both left after a handful of games and both got worse at Watford after looking really good for a few games. Hughes is arguably the only young player we have really developed and improved in the Pozzo PL era.

The FA cup final and surviving 4 years in the PL led to a level of complacency, lunacy and idiocy that really does beggar belief. To spend over £50m without improving the defence, QSF, failing to strengthen in the january window were 3 atrocious, shocking and unforgivable acts of incompetence. Giraldi's micro managment of the manager and the squad was bizarre, inexplicable and quite frankly insane.

It's no surprise talking shyte about our global brand and destroying the club's culture and identity went hand in hand with relegation. The two things deserve each other and were symbiotically connected.

So now we need to reboot. Get rid of the overpaid senior players who got us relegated, recall our young loanees and try to rebuild for the challenges ahead.

I couldn't have faced another year of the **** we served up for a lot of our 5 years in the prem (2nd half of the first 2 seasons, middle of the 3rd most of the 4th minus the 1st 4 games and the FAC up to the semi and almost the whole of the 5th). So Im really looking forward to the Champo. Still wana get back in the PL but more than anything Im hoping to see a return to the club's real values and culture rather than our fake marketing core values. I wanna see better leadership and more hunger, passion and desire on the pitch.

 

What an excellent post. Balanced with good points made.

It is important to look back as see how far the club has developed over the past 8 years. The Pozzo's did stabilise a dying club. Make no mistake, Bassini would have killed us had he dug his heals in over the takeover. The Pozzo's saved Watford, and that can never be forgotten. We, as fans, owe them a hell of a lot.

That doesn't mean we cannot constructively criticise or even blow a fuse every now and then. Football is very emotive and pushing our buttons constantly.

From my point of view, my regard to Gino and the board has dropped over the past year or so. The lack of communication, no clear direction, some rash ill-conceived decisions, scatter gun transfer policy, no identity. They've been arrogant, taken fans for granted and there is now a divide growing between club and support. Admittedly coronavirus doesn't help as that has distanced people even further.

My number one concern is the lack of communication. We never hear from Gino. Duxbury has gone quiet for 12 months. There are so many questions left unanswered. Why bring in Flores after sacking Gracia? If he wasn't good enough last time what changed your mind to think he was suddenly the right man?. Why sack Pearson with two key games still to play? What was behind that? Why not strengthen the defence when it was clear to absolutely everyone it needed doing?

This relegation was such an unnecessary one. We had all the qualities to stay up, and would have done so had the defence even been competent. The pathetic nature of the goals we conceded at Arsenal just summed this area of the team up, but it's been like that for years and we were getting away with it. It was always going to catch us out at some point if we did nothing about it.

But, the Pozzo's are hurting......I assume they are as they never tell us anything......but I suspect they are deeply hurt. This is their first ever relegation, professional pride and most importantly......it's going to cost them a hell of a lot of money. They have got their fingers well and truly burnt.

Are they going to bail out? Well.....and this is the only thing I gleaned from their bland corporate end of season statement, was that the Pozzo's were here to stay. I always make judgements from my initial reaction on hearing that.....and I was delighted by it. So, I know I still love them, but I'm really annoyed with them right now. I think that parallels with married life and family.

So last season they screwed by royally, many times. You can only hope that they've really learned something. Do not be so complacent and arrogant. They do not walk on water (well not all the time), they need to understand some fundamentals, like defence is very important.....and most all of....let the fans in. Give us a few pointers as to what you're doing. As Duxbury once said "we're all in this together".....well are we? Really? Include the fans more and close this divide.

 

Ive learnt Sherlock was right.

Players you love will leave.
Players you hate will get bizarre contracts.
Players you never heard of will be on the squad list.
Managers will come and go.
The Pozzos love signing multiple goalkeepers.
The Pozzos focus on attacking young talent as the main part of recruitment.
Communication from the club can be slow.

 

So far they've delivered the promises made to a certain extent.
Yes they've made some horrendous errors especially last season.
This is now their big opportunity to get things right and back on track. We all make mistakes but it's how we deal with them that really counts. Get the right people in charge of recruiting and coaching and a flying start to the new season and most people will of forgotten the errors of their ways.
They have some massive decisions to make get the high percentage of those right and MOST will be happy.

 

Excellent post.

I would question the Wolves having a superior scouting network to us. A dodgy 'super-agent' isn't a scouting network.

 

How do you know they didn’t do anything they could to sign the right players, but they just didn’t want to come here? If that’s the case then it’s only two atrocious, shocking and unforgivable acts of incompetence.

Also, you’re entitled to your opinion, but I think you’re being harsh on the 2018/19 season. Our season was on a par with the kind longer established PL clubs have enjoyed, like Stoke, West Brom, Fulham, Palace and Swansea - mid table and inconsistent. Even minus the best bits I’d take the period between the Spurs and Southampton home games over the Mazzarri season after the Okaka show, never mind 2013-14, any day and it’s a real shame that we won’t get the opportunity for at least one season.

 

No ****.

Whatever happened to Sherlock?
Was it just Moog gesturing profusely over a bowl of spaghetti?

 

In 2018/19 we got 38 points from our last 34 games with a goal difference of minus 13. We hit the ground running with great preparation and a new formation. Once teams sussed out our new formation, things got worse and worse. But you're right, overall it was a great season for the club.

 

I wouldn't call errors to do with football unforgivable tbh.

 

Clearly the club is in a better position now than before they arrived.

They do seem to have a blind spot when it comes to the defence.
Having said that they were responsible for bringing in Prodl Britos
and Holebas and that was a solid unit . Who was head of recruitment
then ? and has anything changed since then?.

 

Just a word on Everton. Many fans these days like to poke fun at them for being delusional about their standing because they haven't won anything for ages, but the truth is they are actually one of the big <insert number here>. In people's minds, this number of big clubs changes over time but big clubs are big clubs because they come from the bigger cities, whether they are currently successful or not. Consider Spurs a few years ago, pre Pochettino; they were in very much the same situation as Everton are now but at the moment they are part of the big 6 - they might well fall away again soon. An opposite example is Leeds. Around 2000, they were one of the big few who could win the league and they could well be again if they consolidate in the PL over the next few years.

The only difference between Everton and other similar-sized clubs like Newcastle and Man City (before their current mega-rich ownership) is that they were run adequately enough to not have been relegated since the 50s. There are few enough of these big clubs that, if they were all run well there should be no reason for any of them to ever be relegated and Everton are one of those few.

 

I've learned you can have all the fancy operating models and scouting models you like, but when it comes to the PL money talks.

 

In my mind the big clubs, or clubs that could be added to the top six are:-

Aston Villa, Everton, Leeds, Newcastle, Sunderland, Sheff Weds and maybe Forest.

The rest do not have the potential to be permanent elite clubs. You could make an argument for West Ham, but they fall into the next category with Leicester, Wolves, Portsmouth, Sheff Utd, Middlesbrough, West Brom, Southampton, Derby, Blackburn, Birmingham, Bolton

I would place Watford in the next bracket with Burnley, Palace, Stoke, QPR, Norwich, Ipswich, Hull City, Cardiff, Swansea, Brighton, Charlton, Fulham, Bristol City, Huddersfield, Reading, Coventry.

The next level would place Luton, Millwall, Barnsley, Brentford, Bournemouth, Bristol Rovers, Preston, Wigan, Blackpool, Leyton Orient, Plymouth

Finally the rest including Gillingham, Oldham, Swindon, Grimsby, Oxford, Cambridge, Wycombe, Northampton, Tranmere, MK Dons, Doncaster, Lincoln, Shrewsbury, Bury, Peterborough, Southend, Rochdale, Rotherham, Exeter, Carlisle, Colchester, Scunthorpe, Walsall, Stockport.

 

Are Manchester City and Chelsea big club's ? You could argue they are successful but not big as they have rich benefactors b

 

Relating to the Pozzo's their biggest failing has been scouting/recruitment of British players.... other clubs seem to pick up some gems, we haven't really apart from Hughes.

 

I think some of the trolling he got on the Pozzo network page might have made him give up on us. Don't blame him. Some of the idiots that wanted us relegated trolled him last year hoping they go down too. Weird way to live your life if you ask me.

 

I watched a great documentary about the English Cricket team last night 'The Edge' (I think) and it highlighted something that I have learnt from Watford since the Pozzo took over.

The hardest thing to achieve over a long time is a successful team that can a) change and b) stay united. short term success is possible, even easy sometimes, when you get strong leadership and a good team spirit. but that success breeds arrogance, an inability to adapt and change, cliques, division and eventual non performance.

It happens to almost every team, even great teams, in any walk of life. It takes exceptional individuals to be able to make that change stick, and often its not by getting everyone on side, but by sheer force of character and determination.

The main example I can think of is Sir Alex. He was Man Utd. What he said, went, if you didn't like it you were out, if you impacted the team ethos you were out. But he got not just 1 Utd team, but 3 or 4 different incarnations to achieve.

Who is going to be our Sir Alex, Gino?

 

It would've taken huge cojones to sell Doucoure Deeney and Bobby P in summer 2019 but thats what we shouldve done and spent the £60m on a goalscoring striker and 2 defenders. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The peak of that team was the Wolves semi. They had almost nothing left in the tank after that. A bit like winning the play off semi against leicester. It took us over 18 months to get over that.

 

I think the main thing we have learnt is that the balance sheet is too weak to drive you to being the best of the rest, because the club does not generate enough cash, and the owners pockets are not as deep as most other owners in the Premier league.

Aston Villa spent in excess of £150 million in 12 months to just scrape retaining their status in the top flight. How much did Bournemouth spend to end up relegated after five years? How much have West Ham spent over the last four years yet need David Moyes to rescue them from relegation twice with attritional football. It’s a problem for many. Can you compete with the huge budgets of the big clubs.

Ultimately you can only get yourself established if you have a huge fan base you can generate lots of money from. Or have owners at least as rich as Leicesters. Or can generate money through developing players and trading them on to raise the money to continually refresh the squad. I think Southampton have done The player trading as well as any club in recent times. Yet they are another constant battler against the drop.

 

Moosegasm and Hornetboy1 two excellently put together and well thought out posts! especially the first one, football is nothing without the real fans, who will be around a lot longer than the current owners, the owners have done a fantastic job, however their aim at the end of the day is to make money!

Would any of us buy a club going nowhere in the Italian second division from some dodgy owner? No! not quite what they did but some parallels about it!

 

I often think about our last great season in the top flight, when we finished 9th and scored 67 goals and our defence was better than even the Flores season, and it’s with regret that I look at the table and see how much more interesting the top flight was back then and the kind of clubs that were flying high at the time:

http://www.englishfootballstats.co.uk/League Tables/Football League Only/1986-87.htm

Norwich and Wimbledon top 6 in their first seasons (altogether in the latter’s case) in the top flight, Scum 7th, Everton winning the league comfortably, even Oxford surviving, while Man Utd and Chelsea were midtable and Man City and Villa were relegated. The smaller clubs enjoying extended spells at that level (Norwich 9 seasons, Scum 10, QPR 13, Wimbledon 14, not to mention Coventry’s 34).

Is there any chance that the top flight will return to that level of competitiveness in any of our lifetimes? I know money has a lot to do with how things are now, but money existed in football back then (Trevor Francis was the first £1 million signing, not much less than what we paid for Heidar this millennium, and that was back in 1979).

 

That looks about right for 2020.
That represents progress, as 40 years ago we'd have been in the same group as "Luton, Millwall, Barnsley, Brentford, Bournemouth, Bristol Rovers, Preston, Wigan, Blackpool, Leyton Orient, Plymouth".

 

So we’ve basically had a prolonged period before ‘second season syndrome’ set in.

 

Our season reminded me somewhat of Ipswich’s second season in the Prem after promotion in 2000 (the best example of “second season syndrome”, but this phenomenon is not as common as some people seem to suggest) - atrocious start with many people saying they’ll turn it round, they’re too good to go down etc, before an exciting purple patch and another depressing slump towards relegation with players seemingly not up for the fight. The difference was that in our case there were signs it could happen towards the end of last season, whereas Ipswich’s decline just came out of nowhere.

 

I think confidence and morale are massively important esp for smaller clubs in the top league. A good start and results just seem to flow but poor results in those first 4/5 games and confidence just ebbs away. Sheff Utd worked well as a team and results bred confidence which bred more positive results, as with us the prior season. Good players play like great players and make a great team. Poor results at the start, near the bottom of the table, confidence drains, individual performance drops away and it's difficult to get out of that rut. The first 4/5 games of the coming season will be equally important for us to determine whether the players can get their confidence back of continue to flounder.

 

Ultimately, any mistakes that the Pozzos made are amplified by the fact that we're always gonna be one of the poorer clubs in the top flight. I don't know whether that makes their mistakes more or less forgiveable

 

The way the Gino wants to take us up a notch in the wealthier club stakes is through building the new stadium.

My understanding is that it is not just going to be a "Football Stadium", but a complex incorporating other types of businesses that would bring in revenue to the club 365 days a year rather than just on "Match Days". I don't know the exact details of how this would work, but I did read an article some time ago that suggested that this is how Gino and Co. envisage the clubs future growth.

So lets hope the move to a new site goes ahead and that WFC can improve their revenue in the way envisaged, as well as through our performances on the pitch., by bouncing back up. Then maybe we might move up the pecking order of bigger clubs and become a more established club in the Premier League.

 

Funnily enough, didn't the Pozzo's look at Charlton before deciding to buy us? We could easily be where Charlton are now.

 

Yes they did. Yes we could.

 

Based on what you said, I’ve been looking up the stats of the relegated teams that have got back up at the first time of asking, starting from 1996-97.

The only team to have a bad start was Sunderland in 2006/07, when they lost their first four matches when they were reeling from their horror season (worst ever Prem side before Derby took that “honour” two years later) before beating West Brom. Apart from that, the lowest number of points a team bouncing back up has got in the first five games is 8, and in most cases it’s been 10-13, which indicates the importance of being quick off the blocks. That at worst would give you 73-74 points taken over a whole season, which some years would be enough for the play-offs. I’d settle for an unspectacular but solid start and improve from there, rather than start like an express train and risk fizzling out (I won’t be able to take another season like 2000/01 and 2007/08 where we got off to a flyer and didn’t even make the play-offs or barely scraped in).

 

Ok thanks, backs up my point. We have to start well and that means getting manager and squad sorted asap, not last minute.

 

But just because we aren't doesn't mean that the owners are immune to criticism or should have ready made excuses like 'we are a poor club' thrown around after spending £40m on one player.

 

No it doesn't.

 

I think there's a better than average chance the club wouldn't even exist if they hadn't have bought it. Bas would have seen to that.

Luckily, we'll never know the truth of that.