(3) Miguel Britos

Discussion in 'The Team Bus' started by Meister, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. GoingDown

    GoingDown Pizza & Figs

    What a pussy. I wouldn't apologise in public. He tried to make the tackle and missed and got sent off. Apologise to the manager and your team mates, **** everyone else.

    What next, Silva apologises for a tactical change, Deeney apologises for people thinking he's fat, Roy Moore apologises for the 1881 being quiet for part of the game?
     
  2. Thailandtimmy

    Thailandtimmy Now In British Columbia!

    But he gets sent off 4 times in 50 games, that's about 4 times a season.
    The advantage he threw away was we were all over a very weak Brighton side, after he went off they had the upper hand.
     
  3. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    My point is that if he stays and we strengthen in defence, he will be a squad player and won’t play 50 games. I would bet everything I own on him not getting sent off 4 times in one season. He is ill-disciplined but let’s not take the boundaries beyond what they actually are.

    And no. We had a foothold in the game, the same as BHA did. At no time were we all over a very weak team. Did you go to the game? Because I find it hard to believe you did if that’s what you saw.
     
  4. Thailandtimmy

    Thailandtimmy Now In British Columbia!

    I agree he will be a squad player, but 50 games is give or take 1 season if you enjoy any success in cups, and his track record IS 4 reds in 50 games, compared to Robinson 3 in 250.
    I understand Holebas's red, breaking down an attack that could potentially lead to a goal, most people recognize he is taking one for the team. Britos didn't prevent a potential goal, Knockheart was going nowhere, he achieved nothing other than weakening the side, you can argue all you like about our position in the match, after his red we clung on for dear life.
     
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Britos has been with us 2 years. He has played 52 times. Averaged out that is 26 a season. Half the 50 you claim a squad player will play. I haven’t disagreed that he gets sent off too much. But to say he deserves to be shown the door for it is just non-sensical. Sell him because he’s not good enough or because someone wants to pay what he’s worth. But he is good enough to be a squad player.

    And I will ask again if you went on Saturday? Your name suggests not but if you did I apologise. And I agree you can somewhat of a feel of a game from TV if you watched it on TV. But you are being sensationalistic - as we weren’t ‘all over them’ to begin with and weren’t clinging on ‘for dear life at the end’. If they had a decent striker it would have been different. But they bossed possession whilst never really stretching us in the way better teams would have done.

    Britos made an error on saturday that wasn’t acceptable and for which he has rightly apologised, both privately and publicly. That should be the end of it really rather talking about booting him out of the club...!
     
  6. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I hope he's in a taxi ready to go and that we will accept any offer
     
  7. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I'll give you £500 for the taxi.
     
  8. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Clearly didn't mean it though, he didn't even know the name of the player he fouled, just referred to them as "the Brighton player". Gone up in my estimation for sabotaging an apology he'd clearly been forced to make by his employer.
     
  9. kVA

    kVA Reservist

    Britos could be leaving Watford the same way he started here with a three game ban
     
    oxhey67 likes this.
  10. Thailandtimmy

    Thailandtimmy Now In British Columbia!

    Please! Don't be ridiculous, do you think attending a match is the only way to form an opinion, you need to grow up.
    I'm not going to drag out a debate with you as we think differently, I ran large operations across vast geographical areas, and reliance on people and their common sense and judgement was critical to success, I don't think you understand that.
    Do you suggest criminals should simply apologize privately and publicly and we all move on?
    The guy is a liability Burnsy, he cannot be trusted, he arrived on a three game ban and has been banned for a further 12 games now, that's why he only gets 26 matches a season.
    There are more reliable players out there and as I've said before, if you get a card for stopping a goal, players understand, just look at the comments on here from long standing Watford supporters (like myself) in regard to Britos, the concensus does not support your theory.
    You might also check the final 25 post to see how many supporters have left Britos out of their squad, explain perhaps why all of them are all wrong as well?
     
  11. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I have to say Tim although most of your post is pretty spot on and he needs to sort his discipline out we all know football fans are fickle. Britos is on the naughty step for now but mostly because players are typically only as good as their last game. Next time out he'll score a goal or make a goal line clearance and everyone will be happy with him again. That's the life of a professional footballer.
     
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  12. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I have said you can get a feel of a game even on TV!!! I’m not sure why you have taken exception to that. But you have gotten the way the game went on Saturday wrong and I think some of that may owe to the fact you weren’t there. That’s not a criticism of you at all.

    But a few observations:
    A.) Running a company of any size and the staff within it has no relevance unless that company was a football club and the staff were footballers. You can relate your argument there to any business but unless it’s a sports team, there are simply to many differences for the cases to be similar. I’m sure you are very good and professional at what you do. But I’m sure it’s not similar enough to be relevant. Does Britos (employee) keep making the same mistake? Yes, 100%. But the mistake he keeps making is within the remit of the game (business). And it’s solved by giving him training etc. It’s not gross misconduct in any way so therefore he can’t be sacked.

    B.) Britos isn’t a criminal. He took part in a game, broke a rule and got punished. Nobody died. No property was stolen. It’s a game and red and yellow cards are part of it. Every single player on both sides accepts that. So yes, in Britos case, an apology is enough and people should move on. If he murdered someone, then of course not. But those two situations are totally different much the same as your business likely is to football. They certainly aren’t mutually exclusive!

    C.) His teammates will all understand he got red-carded for the reasons above. Whether it was for stopping a goal or a bad tackle. I’m sure they were annoyed and some may even have had strong words for him. But they will have built up working relationships with him in training and matches that are likely stronger than suddenly ditching him because he got sent off. Hell, Troy Deeney and Andre Gray have done much worse - I don’t see them being cast aside.

    D.) If you want to leave Britos out of you squad, as others might want to, that’s your prerogative. And for whatever reasons you wish too. So I don’t need to explain to them. But if any of them are leaving him out and saying he shouldn’t play for the club again for what happened, I’d say the same to them as I’ve said to you. Leave him out because he’s not good enough, not because of some notion that he’s unfit to wear the shirt. You might want to check most of the responses on here to your original post to realise just how ridiculous it sounds.

    If Britos is still here and not transferred to Spain today, he will be in the 25 man squad. And rightly so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2017
  13. Thailandtimmy

    Thailandtimmy Now In British Columbia!

    Far too many assumptions to even debate.
    I'm sure many people see it as a business not a game, ask the Pozzos!
    Incidentally how do you know he will be in the 25 man squad and how do you know the players understand and are ok with his Ted cards?
    Just interested in your knowledge base on the subject.
     
  14. Thailandtimmy

    Thailandtimmy Now In British Columbia!

    Yes, totally agree UEA but I'm still at the end of my tether with him. We have two big liabilities, Janmaat about to get injured any moment and Britos likely to kamakazi his way into the book, both players potentially weakening the side, I simply feel we could do so much better.
     
  15. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Was he in the 25 man squad, yes or no? If the manager felt he was too unpopular with his teammates or too big a liability, he wouldn’t have been. As it was, he was included, which draws the conclusion that neither of those things are true. And that is a judgment that was made by someone more qualified than me or you.

    My knowledge is based on a simple understanding of the game and has been backed up by him being included. You are entitled to your opinion and I accept that you don’t want him playing for the club again. That’s perfectly fair. But understand, you are in the minority.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  16. Thailandtimmy

    Thailandtimmy Now In British Columbia!

    Clearly you have not followed the other posters on here, I'm not in the minority!
    I imagine he is in the squad as it is too late to find a suitable replacement, but let's see what happens if he gets sent off a couple of times between now and January whether he is in the revised squad. Anything else is speculation which you cannot quote as fact as you are prone to do.
    Look forward to resuming the debate in January.
    Whatever happened to the old adage "a team is only as strong as its weakest link" I guess you don't subscribe to that age old wisdom as he's apologized
     
  17. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Okay, to clear up your first point, I have gone back other the threads you asked me to, to gauge the opinion on Britos. And it confirms that on the cross-section of people who post on here, you are in the minority.

    On this thread - dedicated to Miguel Britos - there are 3 people who agree with your original post (One of which is yourself and I'm being kind with the other 2). I have counted 13 who disagree with you, including myself. Some giving reasoned arguments and some simply thinking your original point about him never playing again to be stupid and saying so bluntly.
    I have then looked at the thread 'Final 25 man squad'. Its kinda hard to tell on there but granted there are a few that state they think Britos may get left out - 3 posts make direct mention of it. However, there are more than 3 that argue that he should be included, for reasons such as he can stay fit and is left-footed. Nearly all posts mention his ill-discipline - which I have never denied being a negative factor about him. However, as we know, he was included in the squad. Another fact.

    You are obviously welcome to go over these threads and check what I have found but it will be a simple lie if you say you have found differently.

    To clear up your second point - So, you say I have a habit of stating things as fact with no evidence. The above is the evidence that you are in the minority. Have you yourself not stated 'he is in the squad as it is too late to find a suitable replacement'? Is that a fact? How do you know? The club have just ended a 2-3 month period of squad building and recruitment where they could have bought a replacement - shouldn't have been hard if they think he is reckless, not good enough and ill-disciplined I'd have thought? But they chose not to and included him in the squad. Seems he is highly thought of from that kinda evidence to me?

    And finally your third point - Maybe the 'team is only as strong as its weakest link'. But Watford Football Club don't seem to think he is the weakest link due to him starting all 3 games so far this season. He got sent off in one of those games - he let himself, the fans and the team down. He also scored in one - sending the fans, his manager and teammates into euphorics. In the other game, he played 90 minutes in an away game, kept a clean sheet in a game we dominated from front to back. What do all 3 of these occasions have in common? They are all accepted as being part of football.
     
  18. Thailandtimmy

    Thailandtimmy Now In British Columbia!

    Like I said, time will tell, you are young and naive and think football is a sport, I'm old and cynical and think it's a business and business rules apply.
    Let's talk in January when the club have had time to find a suitable replacement.
    It is astonishing that you do not to understand a weak link that cannot be trusted is a threat to any business or any team. Any decent manager will remove that weak link as soon as the business or team has a suitable replacement.
    You claim expertise in team sports, have you studied Sir Alec Ferguson, that Burnsy is EXACTLY what he did.
    It also served as a reminder to others not to question his leadership, but I shouldn't need to tell the sports expert all that!
    And as for your statistics, you need to recount without your rose tinted specs.
    I'm done Burnsy, the guy is a liability, his recklessness and indiscipline weakens the team and the cluc, to be suspended for 15 games in 2 years is absurd.
    Furthermore his tackle on the obnoxious Knockheart bought the club into disrepute, in 55 years of following Watford I've never seen such brutality and think about it, where was Knockheart going.
    If you don't think he has weakened the team I suggest you get out of sports management as clearly you don't understand it.
     
  19. ITKJim

    ITKJim Reservist

    Have you??
     
  20. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Some might say the weakest link in the team has just got sent out on loan to Spain....

    Mind you I agree Britos at left back due to his lack of pace isn't the answer.

    We have brought another one in - lets see how he gets on if played.
     
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  21. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    So you say I have a habit of saying things as fact but then you make a sweeping assessment that I am young and na*ve? Even though I have presented a much clearer case than yourself who has just fallen back on meaningless business clichés. I have never expressed that I have expertise in team sports - just a basic understanding of them. Sure, I agree business rules apply in the boardroom of a football club. But on the pitch, training ground and changing rooms, sports rules apply. So on this basis of Britos, it is sports rules that matter. Business rules only apply if the club want to sell him or he is in breach of contract, neither of which seem to be true. Any rose-tinted specs are firmly in my drawer - you asked me to look at specific threads which would contain peoples opinions on Britos, which I did. And within those threads their is negative responses towards Britos but on the matters where people are debating him playing again for us or being left out of the 25 man squad, you are clearly in the minority. I repeat, you are not alone in your thoughts but you are in the minority. Claiming to be anything else just makes you look foolish because the evidence of what I am saying is freely available to you and anyone else who wants to find it. You claim to run a massive business and work-force yet apparently refuse to believe what is in front of you.

    ‘Let’s talk in January when the club have had time to find a suitable replacement.’ Your words. But you show a basic level of ignorance and understanding to my point that the club have had more than enough time until last Thursday have they not? And they chose not to do so. Which surely massively enhances the fact that the club like Britos. They rate him. They don’t see him as the weak link. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

    No. I haven’t studied Sir Alex Ferguson. But he never ran our club. He did great things elsewhere. Maybe if you’d studied him you’d see that he had plenty of players over the years that drew many a red-card...Keane? Beckham? Butt? But he stood by them. Because he rated them. And so did their team-mates.

    I don’t work in team-sports. But unlike yourself, I don’t feel the need to validate my opinion by somehow relating it to my work. Because I know it’s much different. And that makes no difference whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  22. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    Also, one other quick thing to bring to your attention...

    After your original post, a forum member replied suggesting the thread be closed, so ridiculous he/she found your suggestion that he shouldn’t play for us again. Your response was that person comment again when ‘they understand team SPORTS.’ But now you claim football isn’t a sport, it’s a ‘business’.

    I appreciate its your opinion and that won’t change. Nor should it, it’s yours after all. But when it comes to the truth of the Britos situation, all the indications are that you are firmly losing the argument and are yet to provide any evidence at all that the club want rid of him.

    For what it’s worth, I’ve actually enjoyed the debate!
     
  23. Thailandtimmy

    Thailandtimmy Now In British Columbia!

    I've enjoyed it too Burnsy, you are certainly one of the more sensible and eloquent on here if you don't mind me saying so. I do admit to being provocative to occasionally stir up a debate, a trait I found so annoying in my dad and here I am doing it!
    I think somewhere deep down in our arguments their lies truth on both sides and perhaps the views can live together peacefully while the dust settles.
    I'm not opposed to a player getting a red card, I loved watching the Keane, Hunter, Storey type enforcers in their day, but these are different times. It's hardly a contact sport anymore, I had no problem with Holebas who potentially stopped 2 breakaways, hence potentially saved possibly 2 goals. I do take exception to brainless tackles exemplified by Britos.
    Prior to that he would have been one of the first names on my team sheet, but not now.
    My reference to Sir Alec was no matter how great the player, once they step over that invisible line they are gone, now clearly that has to be when it suits the club and my money in January but if he he's still here this time next year I'll write you a full page apology and invite you for a vacation to beautiful Thailand.
    It's been fun Burnsy, cheers!
     
  24. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Norman Hunter was one of the most loathsome footballers ever to step onto the field. His hypocritical smile and patronising arm on the shoulder of the ref whenever he'd made a nasty foul was disgusting, not least because it was usually successful. Even by the robust standards of the time, he went way over the top (in every sense).
     
  25. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    I too will make a point of revisiting this when the January window slams shut and will offer a full apology. Or find out how to collect ticket my ticket to Thailand. I’ll assume it’ll be available to collect from the Royal Thai airways desk at Heathrow?!

    It’s been fun! I’m sure our paths will cross on many issues before then ha! I just hope it’s not another Britos red card!
     
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  26. Thailandtimmy

    Thailandtimmy Now In British Columbia!

    Burnsy, your trip to Thailand is in jeopardy!
    Watford's Marco Silva undecided on playing Miguel Britos after his ban

    http://dailym.ai/2wMsLX7
     
  27. Burnsy

    Burnsy Squad Player

    When are you sorting my trip to Thailand?! I’ve been waiting ever since the window slammed shut!!!
     
  28. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

  29. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever First Team Captain

    Well do you trust Sky to get everything about us right?
     
  30. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    "The Club has confirmed" is not the same as "Sky believe."
     
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  31. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team

  32. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Well if the club do offer/have offered him a new contract then, between that and giving Holebas a two year deal, they really have gone completely bat s**t crazy.
     
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  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina Squad Player

    As ITK Jim tells us this is simply the club guarding their puddles of vomit. It’s a simple concept.
     
  34. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

  35. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    For **** sake.
     

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