Yeah I’ve referenced Success’ off-field antics somewhere else above - but it’s just not comparable to Gray’s misdemeanours relating to lockdown. And I’ve never been in the camp who criticises Gray for everything - I’ve been at the front of the queue pointing out his part in the cup run. We don’t know what Success cost us - but I bet the final outlay is nothing like what’s reported due to the nature of the clubs relationships. Gray gets kudos for his few highlights from me - he always has done. But that’s not enough IMO not to make him our worst ever signing. £18m 70k a week £1m per goal The worst first touch I’ve ever seen from a pro. Two lockdown breaks risking public health and his teammates health, and the clubs reputation. A worrying lack of effort to even improve. I just don’t think there’s anyone who beats him to the crown in comparison.
Gray could do a lot worse than take a look at how John Stones has turned his career around. Seemingly outcast at Man City he now is a regular again and is scoring goals too,which is more than can be said for Gray or Deeney. He'll probably regain an England spot as well. He has more money than he can ever eat but has summoned up the desire to win back his place. Does Andre want it enough? If he doesn't he should retire never mind be dropped or sold. Be honest with yourself Andre.
John Stones or Andre Gray ? Different players but apart from 1 or 2 Andre enthusiasts who wouldn't swap Stones for Andre ?.
You argue points without even knowing the facts. Comments like "We don’t know what Success cost us - but I bet the final outlay is nothing like what’s reported due to the nature of the clubs relationships" make you look silly. You get too hung about about how much Gray cost or what he should or shouldn't be doing outside of football rather than what he has contributed and under what circumstances. I know how much Success cost but im not going to say because it makes no difference. He and other players mentioned have been worse signings. It really is that simple.
Hahaha. Now you’re claiming to know details of intimate financial deals? Deluded beyond belief. I really am stopping replying to you now as I’ve given you too much attention given your aim is obviously to just troll people.
When you're debating with someone who thinks that £500K becomes £18m over a period of 10 years purely because of inflation, I think its time to label that person an idiot/troll/wind-up merchant and walk away. We are reasoning with someone who struggles to comprehend his own stupidity so I wouldn't waste anymore effort if I were you.
They all have talent,essential to make a living,even in a team sport as puffed up with its own greed. However Stones certainly has more talent and clearly more application and desire. A more relevant example might be Andy Hessenthaler. He made the most of his career,possibly as he came late to the pro game. Wasted opportunity really irritates me. Gray could do so much more but perhaps there aren't enough good role models at the club? Look at the legacy Cantona created at United. I suspect only a handful of our players stay behind for extra training,shooting practice etc.
No but £18 million and a few important goals vs £12 million and nothing.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Andre Gray's total career record (to date) for Watford:- Total League Appearances: 94 Total League Goals: 15 Games per goal: 6.2 Assists: 6 ...however, if you make it minutes on the pitch this figure is improved. Minutes on the pitch: 4065, giving a game per goal average of 3.0 Now let's look at the importance of these goals and weight them on points gained. I'll remove Gray's goal from the scoreline to judge the impact it had. Swansea (h ) 1-2 L 1 goal 0 points attained Newcastle (a ) 3-0 W 1 goal but it was the third goal so didn't affect the result. 0 points Man City (a ) 1-3 L 1 goal 0 points attained Southampton (h ) 2-2 D 1 goal, helped us to get 1 point Newcastle (h ) 2-1 W 1 goal and although it was a meaningless end of season match, it ensured we won, so he's earned us 2 extra points. Burnley (a ) 3-1 W 1 goal and this was the first goal of the game after 3 minutes, however, Burnley equalised after just 6 minutes. If you take away the goal we still win, but I think it would be fair to award him 1 point for this game. Man Utd (h ) 1-2 L 1 goal 0 points attained Fulham (a ) 1-1 D 1 goal 1 point attained Now's his little purple patch Everton (h ) 1-0 W He scored the winning goal. 2 extra points Leicester (h ) 2-1 W Scored the winning goal again. 2 extra points Purple patch over Southampton (h ) 1-1 D 1 goal 1 point attained Wolves (h ) 1-2 L 1 goal 0 points attained West Ham (h ) 1-3 1 goal 0 points attained Norwich (a ) 2-0 W 1 goal and although we won by 2 goals, his was the important first goal. 1 point. Coventry (h ) 3-2 W 1 goal even though it looks like an important goal, I'm not going to give him this. The ball was going in anyway and it was just a technicality for it to be awarded to him rather than an own goal. 0 points. So, that's it. However, I think it fair to give him credit for the match winning goal against Palace in the QF of the cup. Totalling it all up, his goals have directly earned us a grand sum of 11 points, in 3 and a half years.
Bargain. Whoever put Kabba is deluded. He was ***** but it was simply a panic buy. Warnock couldn't wait to ship him out to a fellow club fighting relegation. Says it all really. It's simply impossible to even try and defend Gray anymore. Already nailed down as the worst signing ever at Watford. A waste of a shirt and squad place which harbours anybody trying to break into the squad. Once Success and Perica are back he will drop out and hopefully never be heard of again.
Yakubu moved from Boro to Everton for £11 million around that time so seems a reasonable benchmark for the transfer inflation.
How much would that be equivalent to now, £30m? Premier League spending is even more crazy now than it was then, Championship spending has also gone up, but without TV money going up as much...
I only watch and have the time to look at a few select sports now. When the Olympics swing around be they the winter of summer version I watch a variety of sports but only then aside from athletic which is so badly tainted by doping from all nations. Take a look at rugby union. The finest players and indeed fly halves like Dan Carter, Jonny Wilkinson stayed for extra practice goal kicking and kicking out of hand. Ice hockey the Messi of the game Pavel Datsyuk would stay on the ice for hours to practice his stick handling and agility skills. Messi himself does not run off home after normal training is over. He constantly worked on his game recognizing weaknesses. Why our players cannot encourage themselves to stay behind and say work on crossing the ball even to the extent they can launch a ball blind and know where they are directing it. Or on free kicks. Or improving their weaker foot. Gray could work on his first touch and his passing. And several of our squad could work on other aspects of their game. But is more interested in rushing off back home to post more idiotic pictures on social media for brainless dolts. I would hope our youngsters and Omer Riza is driving the message home is that with hard work and a lot of practice you can become better than you thought you could be and that hard work and average talent will win out over no work and talent. In Gray's case he has precious little talent to begin with but cannot even be bothered to put extra work in.
Well if it’s a like for like transfer I guess the £11m is £18m in 2018 when Gray was bought and then gone up again now. Looking at others there are other strikers moving premier to premier for £7/8 million around that time so maybe that’s a better benchmark.
Good and fair post. Some people continue to wet themselves over £18m. They either just don't get it, don't want to get it, or will continue their hate towards him regardless. To repeat to you all...………. He isn't our worse ever signing.
There was a lot of debate at the time that the £18m included lots of performance related bits and pieces and the true Gray fee was nearer £12m. However it's a much more powerful argument to use the £18m and add in his est salary costs.
No problem! Yeah agreed and Pereyra’s assist was more the brilliant part than Gray’s scuffed finish but scoring an FA Cup quarter final winner then assisting an FA Cup semi final winner in one of our greatest ever games has to count for something. Doesn’t count for £18 million but taking away fees puts him above Success and co for me, that’s all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It is very very clear from his behaviour in this thread, added on to his history on this site to date, that Manatleisure is literally trolling for fun on Gray and nothing else. I'm embarrassed to have indulged him in this pathetic pursiut for this long, to be honest, even though I have levelled the accusation more than once before. There is no other explanation - it's analogous to Troy still getting to start games. It's like the Simpsons Treehouse of Horror episode where the giant mascots come to life and start destroying the town - the remedy is the same now as it was then:
As I said before, his numbers as a PL starter weren't bad. A good number of 'appearances' were as a sub with Deeney being at the club. And coming on as a sub and regularly scoring goals not his bag. He wont be the first striker to do better as starter than as a sub and he wont be the last. Having a stop start PL career with Deeney at the club, with his influence, was always going to make life more difficult for him. With this is mind, along with other points I have made, it just doesn't make him the worst ever signing. People might not like him as a person - the Luton connection, breaking covid rules, other media stories, etc but that shouldn't cloud the real picture.
I've gone through decades of my life watching football in England and the rest of Europe seeing players purchased for fees that I thought were either a bit too high or very high. Then I see how their careers panned out and look at the dynamic of the club i.e. who was playing, who the manager was, see if any players were favoured over others, formations, players' morale, whether the player was better starting than as a sub, manager sackings, new players coming in to see how that changed the dynamic, all that good stuff. And then make a sound judgement on that basis. There is more to it than just the fee.
I've watched games. Though why you have mentioned that as your reply I have no idea as it isn't related.
Poor Troy. Now even taking the blame for Gray being crap like when Deeney was injured last season. Doesn’t say much that Gray wasn’t picked even when Deeney had the injury issues . I mean would have thought someone like Andre could look after himself - he isn’t a kid who might be fearful of a more senior pro. And they aren’t the same sort of player really. If anything Gray should be a good partner for Deeney with his pace and suppose eye for goal . Like Pedro is.
