Watford Fc 0-0 Tottenham Hotspur - 18/01/2020

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by wfcSinatra, Jan 15, 2020.

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What will the result be?

Poll closed Jan 18, 2020.
  1. Watford win by three goals or more

    6 vote(s)
    6.5%
  2. Watford win by two goals

    15 vote(s)
    16.1%
  3. Watford win by one goal

    32 vote(s)
    34.4%
  4. Score draw

    24 vote(s)
    25.8%
  5. No score draw

    2 vote(s)
    2.2%
  6. Spurs by one goal

    8 vote(s)
    8.6%
  7. Spurs by two goals

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. Spurs by three goals or more

    3 vote(s)
    3.2%
  9. Moo

    3 vote(s)
    3.2%
  1. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Quite.

    The squad was never anywhere near as bad as some were making out. I was finally teetering towards the possibility of relegation right before QSF was sacked, but that was down to me rating him as a terrible head coach rather than the quality of the squad. We've always had the personnel to stay up comfortably, but the form wasn't there. The fact Pearson has come in and done so well so quickly is down to the fact our bad luck finally turned (it couldn't continue for ever), and Pearson's man management abilities putting paid to the confidence issues. I think He deserves an awful lot of credit for that (it's NOT easy to do), but we should also not lose sight of the fact our luck for the season prior to NP coming in was horrific. We were never as bad as it looked on paper.

    The likes of Kabasele, Doucoure, Sarr, Chalobah and Masina have all been written off over the last few years (still boggles my mind some were writing Sarr off so early) and they've all come good or appear to be turning a corner. Yet many would have run them out of the club given half a chance; where would we be if that had happened?
     
    sherwood, Calabrone, CYHSYF and 3 others like this.
  2. LondonOrn

    LondonOrn Squad Player

    And no one seems to have noticed my point made twice before that against non-top 6 sides when we were playing with all 11 men, we were actually quite solid, with only 23 goals conceded in 24 games. The 59 goals against last season was due to our as usual up to that point terrible record against top 6 opposition and the collapses against Bournemouth and West Ham. While it's fair to say that Pearson has taken that to the next level, it's more due to adding an extra resilience and a much more positive attitude when playing top 6 sides, than really improving the quality of the individual defenders or even them as a unit.
     
    SkylaRose likes this.
  3. W4BS

    W4BS First Year Pro

    I was very impressed with the Spurs supporters today, pretty much to a man they applauded during the scarf raising, and again at 72 minutes. A lot of teams would not have done that and done it as emphatically as they did.
     
    gt84, Rozerhorn, Maninblack and 6 others like this.
  4. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    The truth is that some people are not capable of judging how good a footballer is. Just see how quickly some of our players have been written off, or have been criticised with wild hyperbole, but who are now showing that they are more than capable.

    Of course you would have a right to be critical in the past about our defence. They were playing badly and we still have free speech, etc. You also have a right to suggest that they needed to to be replaced - but you would have been as wrong as those that wrote off Masina and Sarr after a few games, or Chalobah as he was coming back from a horrendous injury..

    As I have been maintaining over the past few years on this forum, our defenders are mid-prem quality, and good enough for this league. They needed to get their attitude right, and they needed to be coached and organised. But they are good enough and, although they could all be improved upon, they were definitely not our priority to replace.

    In contrast, it doesn't matter how good a coach is, they can improve movement up front, they can improve decision making, they can improve attitude, but they can't teach someone to create a chance out of nothing and put a chance away. What, for example, can Nigel teach Deeney or Gray about converting a chance. Goalscoring cannot be coached, it is inherent. That is why we need to get a goalscorer, or two.

    So criticising and praising performances when bad or good is fair enough and is so often subjective and arguable. But the inability to recognise the ability of decent players is just plain incompetent.
     
  5. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Odd that you call others incompetent for criticising defenders and in the same post give Gray and Deeney both barrels. Maybe you are being incompetent being critical of Deeney who has played very well the last two games?
     
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  6. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Where have I given both barrels to Gray and Deeney in that post?

    But, I wouldn't judge a player over two games, in any case?

    Did you click on the wrong post?
     
  7. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    We are last on MOTD, well I enjoyed the game at least!
     
  8. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    Not good enough. Football discussion is based on two decimal places.
     
  9. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    It was a good 0-0!

    First 20 minutes a Spurs goal looked inevitable, then we were all over them for 25 and the theme continued, back and forth battle. Mourinho then had Lucas Moura double up on Sarr and the game died from there.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  10. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Well it was 0-0 - that is the trouble!

    Newcastle v Chelsea might have been last till Shearer's mob nicked it.
     
  11. Rontaylor

    Rontaylor Reservist

     
  12. Rontaylor

    Rontaylor Reservist

    Is that true. I think for throws & corners it is also the whole ball
     
  13. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Well they should start officiating that rule properly for everything then. GLT isn't perfect, for all we know those pictures might not be 100% accurate and it may have actually gone over the line, but ultimately, the pictures show it going over, that's definitive proof it's over, if not, then there isn't
     
  14. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Think it's supposed to be the same as for goals, it's just never applied properly
     
    Forzainglese likes this.
  15. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    I'll take that, got to take the positives I suppose. Yeah missing a pen is always disappointing, but even with his record, I'm never convinced when Deeney steps up to take one (only thing I'm surprised about is that he wavered from his tried and tested smash down the middle) and you've got to be pleased with Pussetto's contribution at the end there. Defending is not exactly why he's been signed, but when Sarr goes off injured, at least we have someone to take his place. Hope he can a) prove to be at least an adequate replacement, and b) that Sarr won't be out for too long
     
    SkylaRose and Chumlax like this.
  16. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    Was fearing what they'd do down that side tbf, luckily they weren't too potent though. Dunno, as much as you can criticise Giraldi for, this is more an injury issue, he's, what, 4th choice CB and 3rd/4th choice RB, ordinarily he wouldn't be playing as much as he is
     
  17. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Kabasele will probably be even more miffed with the VAR red card now - might not get back in straight away till the next injury/sending off.

    TBF under Flores at home we looked pretty solid in defence but being coached by a former top flight (albeit a while ago..) defender helps - spend less time flapping around with the ball and concentrating on the job in hand.

    Spurs fans don't seem to like Deeney and Oliver.

    They don't like Foster because he time wasted against them for WBA (and us) - well who doesn't at 1-0 up as we were back in October.

    MOTD agreed though that Capoue was right not to get red carded and there was no handball by Cathcart.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
    vecro likes this.
  18. Moosegasm

    Moosegasm Reservist

    I think they should remove goal lines all together. No doubt some kind of 'continental' invention. Let the referee trust his instincts (like in star wars) to decide whether it's a goal or not.
     
    Shakespearo likes this.
  19. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Defence is the ‘easiest’ area on the pitch to get right and the area of the pitch where a player doesn’t need to have anywhere the level of skill needed elsewhere on the pitch. Look at Maquire, £80m is an awful lot of money but at the same time it’s peanuts compared to what is paid for equivalent players further up the pitch. A little can go a long way in defence IF you have a decent coach/manager who can get them organised and playing well as a unit. Likewise if you’ve got a bad coach poor defenders can be horribly exposed. Silva was a dreadful defensive coach so we looked a shambles at the back with him in charge.
     
  20. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    I agree with most of what you say, but although Chalobah is now looking as though he might get back to being the player he was, you have to admit it was really looking like it might never happen.

    Don't get me wrong I am really pleased that he appears to be getting his MoJo back, but I am sure that many of us who were thinking his career was not going to recover had every right to think so.

    After all he did take a very long time to start to look like the player he was, and I wonder if NP had not come on the scene and obviously instilled new belief in his mind, which the lack of appeared to be his problem, whether he would still not finally be on the mend?
     
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  21. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    You clearly think they are not good enough to put away a chance and cannot be coached. You may be correct - it’s your opinion. I disagree with your view that our defenders as a collective are mid-prem quality (although some are). The point us I wouldn’t call you “incompetent” for having that view which is just odd.
     
    Chumlax and wfcmoog like this.
  22. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Over the last 3 seasons he is a first team regular rather than a backup though. Take this year - Holebas declines rapidly due to age and Janmaat constantly injured (again). By not replacing those players Giraldi makes it inevitable that Mapps is a regular unless we have a great run of the green on injury front.
     
  23. Moose

    Moose First Team Captain

    People tend to react to results, that’s understandable. Our defence looks an awful lot better with three energetic midfielders in front of it, but also with an attack that is pressing the opposition. It simply means the defenders spend less time defending and the play isn’t always right on top of them.

    The writing off of players like Chalobah and Masina indicates that fans don’t fully appreciate how important top level fitness (not just fit, but super fit) confidence and playing regularly are. Until a player is fit and playing in a competent side it’s hard to judge them. Masina in his first few games did look hesitant, got caught out. He looks remarkably assured now.
     
  24. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    It’s not perfect because “for all we know” the pictures might not be accurate? Well, how do you know they’re not accurate? It’s electronic technology, like in tennis. It’s about as accurate as anything can possibly be in football. Even Mourinho said he “loved it because it was always right”.
     
  25. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Masina is a strange one. Brilliant when given chances this season (especially last two games)and arrived with a strong reputation. Yet for some reason Gracia, Flores and initially Pearson seemed reluctant to use him.
     
  26. FromDiv4

    FromDiv4 Reservist

    You mean the time taken to replace the refs radio, that was nothing to do with VAR. We had this happen before VAR was even thought about.
     
  27. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Ok, maybe "incompetent" was not the right choice of word.

    Posters on here are very free with their opinions on players, including myself. By doing so we are implying that we know what we are talking about and we all leave ourselves open to criticism on here when it looks like we turn out to be wrong. None of us can claim to be always right but many posters are now being proved wrong as players that they have criticised for being clearly not good enough are showing that they are.

    The fact is, our defence has not only got a good goals against record over the past two months, but we have looked pretty solid whilst doing it - we havn't been hanging on desperately or particularly lucky. These defensive players "ability" are not why we are down at the bottom of the table, it is because their individual abilities were not being organised into an an effective defensive unit.

    So, in my view, when it comes to judging players, whether it is writing off Sarr, Masina, Chalobah, Doucoure, Femenia, Foster, to name but a few, or the whole defence, then I think that many people just do not have much of a clue when it comes to recognising the potential, or the difference between ability/talent and other factors that don't allow the ability/talent to manifest themselves. Maybe "incompetence" is the wrong word when talking about forum posters. But I bet many Chelsea fans are now suggesting that the club staff that wrote off Salah and De Bruyne as not being good enough just a few years ago, were "incompetent" in how they judged those players.

    I am more than happy to be picked up on when I get things wrong. I was wrong on Gray, for example. I initially thought his lack of ability could maybe be negated by other qualities. I was wrong. But I don't think I was wrong over my defence of Sarr, Masina, and the whole back line, nor my judgement that Deeney is just not a goalscorer, even if he does have the odd good game.
     
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  28. I don't think we should've had that penalty under the current laws of the game.

    We've seen similar elsewhere this season like that not given. I was surprised to see that awarded, especially after seeing it on TV later on.
     
  29. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Think that is what Pearson said after the match - but it was more clear cut than the Cathcart incident they claimed handball for.
     
  30. zztop

    zztop Eurovision Winner 2015

    Yes, but it is often about potential or talent and ability that just isn't apparent when concentrating on the negatives - and many fans just cannot see that. That is my point. If you watch the shoutbox, a player can make 6 decent passes, then mess one up and be deemed "crap" or "****" immediately by several posters.

    Fans should not be looking at results when it comes to players individual performances. In my view, that is not "understandable". Some of them I don't even think they should put themselves through even watching the game, but merely check the results and the tables the following day, and they would come to exactly the same conclusions.
     
  31. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    I didn’t see the game , but have seen on the BBC that Mourinho thinks it was unfair that they did t win - he really is a bell end. From everything above sounds like we looked good.

    shame about this missed penalty - but one of those things

    biggest worry is Sarr , Last thing we need right now is him disappearing into our medical Center for 6 months
     
  32. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    The defender slid in, out of control to block the shot, his arm was up and a goalbound shot was stopped by said arm. Therefore a clear penalty.
    Cathcart's handball was accidental and came from the ball being deflected upwards to his arm in a melee. Definitely not a penalty.
     
  33. Smudger

    Smudger Messi's Mad Coach Staff Member

    Hopefully it is a strain only. He did walk off fairly comfortably so unlikely it is a tear. Mourinho is a complete sham of a man. I would never put him anywhere near the category of a great manager. He has won competitions bankrolled to the hilt and his attitude is petulant and nasty. He deserves the name Moaninho. As stated on MOTD it was nowhere near a red card for Capoue. And ball from body to hand is not a penalty in the rules as he claimed against Cathcart. The fact is he will take Tottenham nowhere after signing some expensive flops and then bugger off into the sunset hopefully for the last time.
     
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  34. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    When I was at the game I was surprised Oliver gave that (only because it wasn’t in the last minute). But once I viewed it again on MOTD it was a clear penalty. His arm was above his head in an unnatural position stopping a fierce shot. It was stonewall as far as I’m concerned.

    The other incidents Mourinho was crying about was the Cathcart arm. Clearly accidental and I don’t think I’ve seen any penalties given when the ball brushes a defenders arm this season.

    Capoue’s could have been a red. I think we got lucky there, considering all the soft red cards we’ve been having lately, maybe we’re owed one.
     
    WillisWasTheWorst likes this.
  35. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    He loves himself for the same reason.
     
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