Covid-19 Virus

True. There's just something about the idea of a Government-enforced medical procedure that makes me feel very uncomfortable

 

The law sets great store by bodily integrity. More than it protects liberty, really.

The difficult question is whether that remains the correct position when the medical procedure doesn't just impact on the individual, but has a much wider collective consequence.

 

Come on Lloyd, that's completely naive nonsense. Government-enforced? This lot would outsource it. I think you'll find your friendly local vaccine hit squad will be driving around in the dead of night in a blacked-out van sponsored proudly by Serco.

 

Sounds like one for the corduroy boys on Radio 4 to mull over!

 

Or my students...

 

I made the point to Clive of the K the other day: it's so illogical to not have a vaccine because they don't trust the government. Lots of us don't trust the government but we appreciate that they have nothing to do with the development or delivery of the vaccine.

 

That’s the problem with us humans, though. Many of us think we’re completely unique and not part of the human race/society. Like those ***** interviewed on the packed beaches in the summer, saying they were surprised so many people were there.

People who decide they don’t want the vaccine won’t be unique, and if enough people decide they don’t want it then that will cause a problem for everyone. Sadly many humans think they’re special, and that enough people will take the vaccine so that means they don’t have to. But they aren’t special at all, they’re no different to any other human being and it’s supreme arrogance to consider themselves as somehow being superior/different to any other human. Just shut up and take the perfectly safe vaccine like everyone else.

 

It's quite simple. Once everybody has been offered a vaccination, issue certificates/passports to everyone who has taken it, and also to people who are medically exempt - the certification doesn't even need to qualify, you get it if you are vaccinated or exempt medically and it looks the same. Then anybody who wants to has the right to choose whether to let people in, employ them, etc. Commercial considerations will drive uptake.

If you have succumbed to conspiracy quackery, or 'you want to know what's in it' just like you want to know what's in that bottle of Covonia or Preparation H (yeah right), or your rabbi/pastor/imam/pandit has told you not to take it, then choices have consequences.

 

What about those for whom it may be medically unwise to be vaccinated? Should they be told to "Just shut up and take the perfectly safe vaccine like everyone else"? Can't you see how Orwelian it is to force someone who, having weighed up the pros and cons, decides that the vaccination is not for them, to have it against their will? And, by the way, at this stage nobody can say that the vaccine is 'perfectly safe' - but most people have decided that the apparent benefits outweigh the possible risks: those who come to a different conclusion should be free to do so - not threatened with losing their job or told to just shut up and do as they're told by the Ministry of Truth

 

That's why herd immunity is a thing. It's based on a large percentage getting vaccinated and by extension protects those who can't get vaccinated, if too many people choose, for whatever reason, not to get vaccinated then there are two issues, firstly the herd immunity to protect those who can't have it could succumb to it, and secondly if not enough are vaccinated then it simply allows the virus a better chance of mutating further as it will be spread around more hosts and could render those who were vaccinated previously vulnerable again.

 

Well that’s a completely different issue, nobody should take the vaccine for whom medically it would be unwise to, who is suggesting that?

For anybody else, what is their basis for ‘weighing things up’ and deciding it’s not for them? What exactly from a medical and scientific point of view are they ‘weighing up’

The vaccines are basically copies of the spike protein, how on earth could that be in anyway unsafe amd how is the general layman qualified to decide it isn’t?

Let’s put variants and mutations aside. Let’s say based on the R number under normal conditions and Efficacy of the vaccines, 90% vaccination is required to reach herd immunity.

But 20% of the population ‘weigh things up’ and decide it’s not for them, so 20% of the population negatively affect 100% of the population because they just didn’t feel like it, based on absolutely nothing at all? That 20% cause unnecessary death, health implications and restrictions because they deem themselves somehow special and different?

 

So, basically, if I understand you correctly, you are saying unless a person has some expertise in a subject they are not entitled to have a view on it and should simply doff their 'general layman' cap and get back to looking at the t1ts on page 3 while other people decide what's best for them? Interesting. But, having read your pre-season posts about Andre Gray's outstanding ability as a goal scorer you might be on to something!

 

I am not arguing about herd immunity,R numbers or the general medical benefits of the Vaccine. Personally, as a 55 year old slightly shagged out bloke, I was delighted to be called up for mine. However the 25 year old me would almost certainly not have had it. My point is that it is entirely wrong for anyone who objects to being jabbed to be made to have it against their will. It doesn't matter if they've decided they don't want it because they think the dose contains extract of pig, or they'll end up being controlled by Bill Gates, or the juju man tells them it's a bad ting etc etc etc. If someone chooses not to have it that is their choice. That's all

 

What on earth are you on about? I said I thought Gray would be ok in the championship, then I swiftly adjusted my opinion after a couple of games confirmed this to be wrong.

You know, I used actual evidence to change my opinion, as opposed to deciding the actual evidence is wrong and deciding I know better.

Do you think the people who decide they don’t want the vaccine would be happy, as an alternative, to stay in lockdown forever? How would the people who decide the vaccine isn’t for them feel if everyone else decided to have the same opinion as them?

Do you think the people who refuse the vaccine should receive the same benefits (holidays, pubs etc) as those who’ve happily taken it?

In other words, should the people who decide completely irrationally and against all scientific evidence that they don’t want the vaccine directly benefit from the rest of the population taking it?

 

And if enough decide they don't want it that the virus maintains a stronghold and life can't "go back to normal" as a result, that's just unfortunate ? As Queenie said, people should stop thinking just about themselves and start thinking about others too.

 

The head of a hereditary monarchy espousing the principle of socialism...

 

I see your point but it can't escape people that due to lower uptake of the MMR jab, particularly at the turn of the century, that it's no surprise that the prevalence of measles has increased.

What if people had refused the smallpox jab in great numbers? It would still be around.

 

Don't get me wrong, I detest the notion of a royal family, but on this occasion she's blunt and right.

 

What 'evidence' do I need to support my opinion? For clarity that opinion is that it is wrong for society to force someone to undergo a medical procedure of any kind should they not wish to - regardless of their reasons. What's next on the agenda, a controlled cull of all those not vaccinated?

 

Gawd bless her

 

Sure, so our opinions can just override anything? Good one.

 

What if people refused to have a yellow fever jab before going on holiday to Peru? They'd be put on the next plane home
What if my auntie had a c0 ck? She'd by my uncle
What if, what if, what if? What's any of this got to do with my view?

 

As long as they're inside the boundaries of the law, yes, that is generally how a free society works

 

I don't know. Some people on this forum are quite special.

 

Same age and status. No sign of me getting jabbed yet. Damn postcode lottery.

 

???

 

I had mine today, Nottingham is a bit behind.

 

Get with the times, Lloyd. What's a co ck got to do with it.

 

You can say that again.

 

They seem to be whistling through them around here. Having received my text I phoned the quack to book myself in and after being given my slot I asked the receptionist if my wife could have hers at the same time - although she he hadn't been officially called up yet. Amazingly the answer was sure, bring her along. All strangely relaxed, efficient and fuss-free.I hope yours is as straightforward

 

And yet, the only person who I know who has told anyone I know that they will not be having the vaccination on principle, is a die hard socialist in Clive.

I think you've got your "...isms" wrong.

 

Of course, what was I thinking

 

Or Clive has...?

 

About co ck, presumably.

 

Not tonight


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