Why do people even bother engaging with him on this topic? It's the same thing every week - he's just winding you up.
Nearly 24hrs later and you still haven’t answered the basic question and have instead continued to back yourself into a corner.
I'm sure myself and @Burnsy had a massive difference of opinion towards Gray during the Summer. I honestly can't see how you can defend Gray @Manatleisure ? His cameo was nothing less than disgraceful yesterday. You say he's not an impact sub! Ok so what is he and what in your honest opinion does he bring to the team and squad? In all my years as a Hornet I've been desperate for every player to be successful. But come on surely this was his last performance in a Watford shirt yesterday. He's been nothing but a disruptive influence imo.
Would be interesting to see the stats on this? Do you have the goals per minute numbers to support this?
I have already said that it would be helpful to upgrade our strikers going forward. The latest manager has to choose in his 4-4-2 the 3 available strikers out of Deeney, Gray and Pedro. He tried Deeney and Gray for a couple of games and yesterday he went for Deeney and Pedro. Which is fine. In the Watford v Huddersfield thread I have witnessed pages of Deeney being crucified. But what is the manager meant to do? He plays 4-4-2 and its 2 from Pedro, Gray and Deeney. Gray did ok against Norwich, his first under the current manager, I saw that game. I didn't see the Swansea game but watched the progress on Sky sports and not a lot of positive goal mouth action was shown and Clinton Morrison said after the first 20 minutes or so that Swansea were decent. So the team continued their away day blues. I saw the 2nd half against Man U, was always going to be a difficult game but Watford did ok 2nd half they didn't get thrashed and Gray wasn't particularly horrendous compared to our other players in that half. Deeney didn't play in that one. Yesterday, Deeney and Pedro played and helped the team win 2-0 and Gray (and others) came on with the team looking comfortable according to Tim Sherwood of Sky Sports who watched the game. I wouldn't be surprised if Gray was sold in the summer. With Deeney it may be a bit trickier. I can't recall either of them being impact players off the bench, whilst both have been at the club. That's just the way it has been. And I have read posts from people saying it doesn't matter what combination of the strikers we use at our disposal, they aren't good enough. I'll say it again...… it would be helpful to upgrade our strikers going forward.
So....all that and you still haven't said what his strong point is apart from 'coming off the bench' isn't it.
Nobody in their right mind is going to pay money for Gray to buy him outright. The best we can hope for is someone takes him on loan and pays some of his wages for us. But the likelihood is we're not going to see any return on over £35m worth of investment. Another reason why he's the worst purchase in our history.
I'd be absolutely shocked if we managed to offload Gray to another club. Delighted, but shocked. Even IF another team took leave of their senses and wanted him, he's on £70K a week. He's taking the money all day long- no clubs gonna offer him even a tenth of that in his career again.
He might go for less wages. Not like it hasn't been done before with other clubs. The club just needs to tell him that "he is not part of their future plans" which with a bit of luck might move things along and get more clubs offering. One would think Gray would prefer to still play.
Hold on. Let me get this straight. He was dropped from the starting line-up, likely because of his appalling performance in the previous game, and you’re okay with him coming on and completely half-arsing it?
Likely because the manager thought Pedro and Deeney would be a more effective partnership in the game yesterday and wanted to see how it played out. And he can't drop Deeney.
Okay, so even if I grant you the benefit of calling it a tactical decision, you’re still okay with him, as a senior professional in our squad, coming on and half-arsing it because we had a 2-0 lead?
I didn't watch the game yesterday so can't comment on what he did or didn't do in that particular game. I have known for him to come on as sub before and not have much impact. Likewise other players. For us and other clubs. Including when a game looks to be won.
@Manatleisure this was the Soton game and I was looking forward to discussing his performance the following Sunday with my Burnley supporting, born again Christian, fellow coach. We're not talking disappointment at how spectacularly inept he was but anger - a level of anger I hadn't felt since walking out of "The Phantom Menace". When I was asked by the coach how Gray faired the level of vitriol and 'adult language' I used led me to subsequently write formal apologies to him and the club for the 'forceful opinions' I voiced. Please note during my five decades of being an 'Orn I have never discussed any player other than Gray with such levels of 'passion'. I honestly believe he's doing it on purpose so when his playing 'career' (sic) is over he can return to the Scummers and do his coaching badges with them pleading he's shown the ultimate loyalty to them.
Whack any other clubs shirt on the bloke and the condemnation of his efforts and record at that club would be rightfully heavily criticised. I have always felt okay discounting his misdemeanours off the pitch before he joined us because having done some research on it, he has done work to educate himself and also some foundation/charity work. I don’t think he’s a ‘nasty piece of work’... But I don’t discount his lockdown behaviour. I was willing to look past the first instance if there was a willingness to make amends and show it was a mistake. But repeating the same mistake when every man and his dog knew the rules, was beyond the pale, a slap in the face for everyone in the country more or less. All he could do was give his all on the pitch...and he’s not done that. I don’t think his lockdown antics were an act of an awful human being...just those of a complete and utter prat with little to no thought or comprehension for others during this time. I thank him for the goals in the cup run. And his assist at Wembley. And I praise him for shedding a light on racial issues within the game as he has done. But enoughs enough really now. Taking everything into consideration, he’s the worst signing this club has ever made by some distance. You can pull out little thing he’s done well, as I have done above - he’s not been a total disaster when isolating some things - but when it’s all combined, there’s no other outcome. And returning to my initial sentence - put another clubs shirt on the bloke and everyone on here would be in agreement about him as a footballer - the only person left defending him is doing so because he wears a Watford shirt, I’m convinced of that. Admirable to show such support in a way...but sometimes the glass isn’t half full. In this case, the glass was empty a long, long time ago.
You’ve failed to answer the question once more. Given I’ve repeated it a couple of times, I think it’s fair to assume you’re purposely avoiding it because the answer doesn’t fit into the narrative you’re trying to create around Gray. I’ll try one more time. You attributed his lack of effort in the original post I responded to as due to the possibility that the game was won, and he was therefore one of many players you’ve seen over the years come on and phone it in - essentially trying to justify his lack of effort. If this is the case, then I ask once more: are you okay with a senior professional coming on, and showing a complete lack of effort, desire, or hunger to impact the game in any way at all?
I’ll take that as you being perfectly fine with his lack of effort, seeing as it’s not a perfect world. To summarize your posts then..... He was dropped for tactical reasons, not because he was shockingly poor in the previous game. He responded to the decision his coach made by coming on and giving poor effort. This is acceptable in your eyes though, because other players have done that in the past. You didn’t watch the game, so you’re defending him completely and utterly blindly. Glad we’ve cleared up where you stand.
I didn't watch this particular game and it wouldn't be right of me to take the word of haters club folk as an accurate reflection of what the player did or didn't do.
I don’t know if you still think it’s cool to be an internet troll in this day and age, but it’s really not a good look.
Again, I ask...how many games have you watched in their entirety this season? Because at the minute it sounds like you only watch selected highlights and because Gray isn’t in them, you decide that shows he’s done nothing wrong. And would rather listen to Clinton Morrison and Tim Sherwood as opposed to actual fans watching every moment he’s involved in. You’ve been asked a lot of sensible questions today on this matter, by myself and others, and you’ve ignored to answer any of them directly and have either ignored them or worked your way around them without ever answering the direct point of the question. It doesn’t do your side of the argument any good at all.
Go on, humour us anyway. At the very least it would give some basis to your viewpoint which I’d respect personally.
Only Nathan Ellington and Ramon Vega are worse signings than him. If you're that list, that ain't good.
Ramon Vega I accept but he’s not worse. Vega’s wages contributed hugely to putting us in financial peril. But I just think when you look at the return we have got from Gray for 18m/70k a week, there’s no one else who comes close. Add in 2 lockdown incidents at a time of great national struggle and when the club were/are doing such great work in the community and it’s unquestionable. Only Isaac Success could arguably come close but he’s never brought national shame on to the club (okay, hit the front pages of a tabloid but it’s hardly in the same ballpark as Gray’s TWO offences) and regardless of Success’ fee, there’s obviously question marks about what he actually cost given the nature of the deal.
It will always be Jamie Moralee As the worst striker signing though. We lost Furlong and got him instead. Truly sad days. In that category of worst striker signings, Nathan is only a runner up.
Seems strange that you feel able to defend his conduct yesterday, having not seen any of the game. Almost like you’ve come to a predetermined point of view, and nothing will persuade you otherwise.
