No surprise with the result and no surprise with the reaction on here, including from me. I thought we did well overall. Poor marking from Troost for their goal, but the scorer got a lucky mishit off the post. They only really had one good chance (Bailly, I think) in the rest of the game, the rest were mainly hopeful long range efforts. We looked more fluid going forward than usual, with a promising debut from Zinc who I think will be an excellent signing, Pedro looked good on his comeback and Hughes up for it. Sarr is lacking confidence in my view as his undoubted ability is just not even being attempted, he has just seemed to have lost the wil to take people on and use his pace. It is not a lack of ability, I think there is a good player there, (good enough for a top six prem team, in my view) just a poor mindset at the moment. But we were poor in front of goal again. It seems like a good 4 years that I have been screaming that our lack of decent strikers is our most serious problem, and it continues. After seeing Gray and Deeney so consistently very poor in front of goal, I just cannot see how trying other players up front can do any harm, it is almost risk free. Hungbo did quite well yesterday, why not give him a bit of a run against Championship defenders? Nevertheless, we had 18 shots at the goal yesterday, and that has to be pleasing. Overall, though, I think we are looking more like promotion contenders than we were a month ago, and that is the positive for me. The negs amongst us will have predictably have said that we were playing against a weakened Utd side, and that they weren't bothering. But Utd had some good players on the pitch, and if it was such a stroll for them as the negs say, then why would Utd have risked Rashford, Maguire, Martial, Matic when they are joint leaders of the Prem, with a game on Tuesday, and are playing the other joint leaders next weekend. Edit. Just seen the post above. I've got a real lack of knowledge of available strikers that could possibly come here. But I think Vydra would thrive in the Championship with Sarr, Pedro and Zink around him. He isn't getting games under Burnley's system, get him in!
I think that's the bar for the whole team now. The club Twitter account described the performance as 'brave'. Which tells you all you need to know. Amazing how far we've come.
The problem with Vydra is that, even if we could get him in somehow, he would still also force us to be wedded to 4-4-2, or at least some kind of fairly orthodox two-striker formation; he is another player who has never been able to play up top on his own, and always played his best/most effective/actually that effective at all football in a sort of striking-'10'-to-second-striker role. It was true when he was with us, and it only clicked at Derby and earned him his move to the Prem when they put him back in that position. Don't get me wrong: it's absolutely imperative we bring in some kind of striker; any kind who can actually play as a striker and present a goal threat. If he did come in, it would be a positive and I'd be pleased (not to mention the nostalgia-wave reaching fever pitch with about half the team on their second spell here). But it would still leave us with some significant limitation. Obviously, in a realpolitik way, some limitation is better than our current total limitation, and if the Deeney-spiracy has any weight to it at all and he is bouncing potential contenders for his spot straight offstage like some kind of Bowser figure, perhaps bringing in someone guaranteed not to challenge him in the big tuff 'ard man upfront role is just good sense. Not as good sense as drumming Deeney out on his arse right this second, but then we are those proverbial beggars in this moment, after all.
Tbh - cannot believe I am saying it but would prefer to give Success a go. Gray and Deeney will score very few goals(other than penalties) and are really handicapping the team hugely. I cannot understand how Gray was prolific at Burnley - that header last night showed he has no sense of even where the goal is give Success a go. He has no idea what he himself is doing so has a chance that the defenders also will not know
It’s a fair point you make about Vydra playing in a two but not sure what is else is out there we could get. He is also the best finisher, Mo Johnston apart, that I’ve seen and if we played one up front with with Pedro, Zinc and Sarr just behind I’m sure he would get chances.
Interesting game. Not every day you get to play against Manchester United. Unlucky they scored so early in the game. Were these the best players of Watford? If so I have to say (based on this game) that Zinckernagel is probably your best player. Offcourse he didnt shine the way he did at Bodo, but he played in a total different role with other players around him. Not only do you need a striker, also a midfielder who can control the pace of the game and brings more football in the team. Zinckernagel should be more up front and has to get the ball a lot more. His controll on the ball is really good and he can get the ball into the box. His only downside is that I dont think he is cut out for kick and rush football.
If we take for granted the fact that Zinckernagel is here now (easy to do), Hughes is approaching full fitness, and that with Sarr, Sema and JP still about our main strength is, in a broad sense, in attacking midfield, Success makes some sense. He is the only striker we own capable of bringing the ball under control and bringing other players into the game, whilst being of the requisite fitness and mobility to keep up with the play and, indeed, those other players. He is also the only player half-capable of operating as a lone striker, thanks in part to the fact that he is the best player at bringing the ball down when in the air in Watfording memory, for me. If we find ourselves stuck in the nightmare and utterly profligate scenario of Gino leaving us in the same position upfront as we are right now, the polish to apply to that turd would be Success, and if Xisco was the luckiest man alive he might even prove the adage wrong. Whether that would be good for Gino and his brain/ego/delusions, I'm not quite so sure. The good news, of course, is that he appears to be out for at least another month, so it would be too late anyway. So, as you were, really.
Don't worry, when our captain and main striker comes into the team next week, Zinckernagel will be playing kick and stand still football. He doesn't rush anywhere* *unless it's an all you can eat buffet
Agree with you about the finishing (in as much as I never got anywhere near seeing Mo Johnston). But I just don't think he's ever really showed an ability to lead the line on his own in his career to date, and that would affect the chances we would create, because he's always looking to be moving towards goal and shooting, rather than being any kind of focal point. We have a tendency to piss our pants at the first sign of trouble and start hoofing from the centre backs anyway; can you imagine what that would look like if Vydra was the sole man they were doing it to? (Probably just as effective as Deeney, but with fewer sumo matches breaking out in the process ).
Hungbo's positioning need a huge amount of work. He is pacy but is limited to a few practiced plays. If he wants to develop further he will need to learn to stop, look around once in a while, pick out players and not keep using this I will cut in and shoot ploy. It may work down the pyramid where I suspect he will end up but there is an awful lot of maturing if he is ever to become remotely close to being near the first team.
As others have already said, it was an improved performance after an early setback, and at fulltime I actually felt quite frustrated we hadn’t taken it to extra time. Some have said that Xisco looks like somebody who has won the lottery and the prize was to manage us. Well, I’d hardly say that’s much of a prize. What a terrible hand he’s been dealt by those paid large sums of money to put together a squad more than capable of winning promotion. It just gets more risible by the week. Gray starts up front because quite simple he is the only experienced striker available. With his antics off the field and his performances on it, he manages in one fell swoop to sum up everything that’s both wrong with our team and in life in general right now. Perica, always a gamble when we signed him, remains incapable of putting a run of games together. Deeney is an international quality striker in terms of talking a good game, but sadly not playing one. And so our terrible scoring run on the road continues. And elsewhere there are huge gaps in the squad too. Navarro remains one of the weirdest signings we made while in the PL. We finished last night once again with a right footed defender at left-back. With Zinckernackel and Sema both playing on their wrong sides. With yet another injury in our already very depleted midfield. Our supposed star player looks totally unmotivated and disinterested. Yes, there were some good pluses last night and I’m still behind Xisco, but my goodness me he’s been dealt a weak hand with the squad he’s inherited.
With the three behind have decent quality I’m not sure we need to play with the one up top being a target man to hold the ball up. I’m certain he is a better option than we currently have
Junker and Berg would be a good addition for the team. Tounekti needs more time I was lucky that I could watch the game on ESPN, Now I hope I can also see a few competition games because I want to see how Zinckernagel will do in the competition. On what TV station (or stream provider) do you guys watch the games, when you cant go to the stadium ?
He doesn't have to be a target man, no; there's definitely more than one way of playing as a lone striker. But he does have to be able to hold the ball up in some way and be a target to one extent or another to help create opportunities and space, rather than just essentially being another player looking to do almost exactly the same thing as those three advanced midfielders behind him that he'd be doing it for. The ball has to stick and be distributed in some way and that's a problem we suffer from enough as it is. Fielding a second striker at centre forward won't help us much in that sense.
Sadly you have to purchase them from the Hive Live broadcast on the club website for the ludicrous sum of £10 a match. That is, if they're not chosen for Sky Sports or BT Sport broadcast, which is relatively rare.
Legally most of us watch on Watford Hive. https://www.watfordfc.com/hornets-hive-live/watch But that costs money. Not sure you would want to watch us week in and week out. It gives one headaches and insomnia. There are plenty of the other sources Multatuli if you look elsewhere.
Maybe, even with all the faults you are happy to point out (which many of them are understandable considering the context of it being his debut, and against Utd), would he be any worse than Deeney and Gray? I don't think so.
I agree with most of what you say and trying to get the perfect striker is not possible so I would like to get one who is capable of putting the ball in the back of the net. I’m not a big fan of players going back to previous clubs but I think Vydra would work. How about Ighalo?
Most real Watford fans use something called ‘shoutbox’that enables you to form a comprehensive view and outspoken opinion on the match, without actually watching any games.
Ok so you sold your best player to Villarreal and now Deeney is your top player. Well hopefully he can play soon.
Well my other club I support (besides Bodo Glimt) is AZ Alkmaar (some obscure Dutch club) and sometimes I wish I wouldnt have watched the games either . At least you still have all options open for promotion.
Vlad had an even weaker squad to work with while he was here, but he didn't get this sort of sympathy from you or most people on here
It's a joke (the original post we both are replying to) because Deeney is actually one of our worst players now (unless I'm being whooshed here ).
