Nothing's Changed

Of course my point about being 24th was sarcastic. Although a logical point based on the comment you made. But by the same same token you must realise that being 3rd is not the end of the world if you are looking for automatic promotion, after 8 games in.

“We are expected to be challenging right at the top”. what does this mean? Does 3rd not mean right at the top? Or does it mean we have to be second? It can’t mean first place as then we wouldn’t be challenging, we would be there.

I’m not sure why you attack so much. It is very off putting. Most people come to places like this to talk about football rather than get into an argument.

 

No one has said anything about us being 3rd being "the end of the world". What I and others are questioning are the so far average at best, appalling at worst performances, which seem to be getting worse, and how it looks for a prospects going forward.

As others have said there's not been one game where you can say we've been comfortably the better team other than perhaps Luton, which we still only managed to get a 1-0 from. We still aren't scoring goals - 8 from 8 is woeful for a team looking to challenge for promotion - and are now starting to concede goals and chances too.

Wycombe should have beaten us tonight, we were lucky not to concede 4 or 5 against Blackburn, and the games we have won have been far from convincing. As I said before we seem to be seeing a continuation of almost every issue that we suffered from last season. We'll obviously be punished for it slightly less in the Championship, but at the same time we look nothing like a team capable of finishing the season as one of the promoted sides.

 

That's fair. Foster barely made a save in the first 5 games or so, and he's definitely showing his worth in the last 3. Foster is part of that solid defence for this level though, and just like the organisation of the back 5 will win us points this season, as will Ben.

I think we've only looked a threat going forward in the Luton and Blackburn games so far, it's definitely an issue. We've shown 10-20 minutes periods in the other matches but have relied on individual moments of quality. It's not enough. I don't think it's a coincidence that we don't look cohesive going forward when we're playing a winger and a 19 year old winger/forward up front. We need to play strikers. Thought we improved slightly in that respect with Perica against B'mouth, even if he didn't have the best game individually. Hopefully it'll improve when Gray/Deeney are back. Not that they are great players, but may help the team overall.

 

I don't know about quality or divisions or tactics.

What I can say with absolute certainty though is I'm bored. I'm bored of not being free-flowing and attacking. I'm bored of not being in the stadium. I'm bored of watching on telly. I'm bored of Kabasele brain farts. I'm just a bit bored of supporting Watford at the moment.

 

There did seem to be rather to much of last season on show today in both our attitude and our play. It's still early in the season, and of course we are third (yay) but am I the only one who thinks back and sees similarities to the Aidy Boothroyd seasons after relegation. Like then we are picking up points without playing well but how long will it last. Will we improve and come good or will we continue this way until we suffer a wretched morale bursting humiliating defeat that breaks us. Time will tell.

 

I’m not suggesting we have played well. Rather we are 3rd having not played well and almost solely without a striker. As you say, it is too early to judge so let’s see when we actually get the strikers back and then see how Ivic will set us up.

 

It was ******* woeful tonight. But anyone who thought we would walk this league were being ridiculously naive. We're a massive work in progress.

 

I'm not sure how we are ever going to see any "progress" whilst we are still persisting with the likes of Cleverley, Cathcart, Chalobah etc. in 2020, unless the progress is to progressively become even more crap.

 

There is definitely a lack of grit and determination. After 5 years in the Prem I found myself looking at Grimmer, Jacobs en and Horgan and thinking Watford could do with a couple of players like that. It's been the same in each game I've seen, envying the oppo who have commIted players even though they are only average technically.

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L*ton were completely and utterly abject, created one chance they should have buried and then produced absolutely nothing else, and Blackburn played a 'nice' style of play which just completely played into our hands, that game wasn't a case of us playing particularly well or particularly poorly, it was just they let us do what we wanted. Sadly, the rest of the Championship hasn't been anywhere near as obliging...

 

I think finances say otherwise. It’s do or die this season. Fail and we lose Sarr, JP, Hughes and Capoue. Next season we will just be left with dross on long contracts so we need to get it right this year.

 

Do we not deserve some credit for the performances and results, then? Blackburn and Luton both look like fairly solid teams this year.

 

As I say, Blackburn decided to come at us, completely playing into our hands. L*ton won't be in any serious relegation trouble I don't think, but they won't be anywhere near the top neither

 

I may have missed your point, apologies if so. I'm saying Blackburn are a good side, probably top 6 contenders, and we put in a good performance and won. Luton are a solid side, as you say probably lower mid table, and we put in a good performance and won. Do you disagree?

 

I get that, I really do.

Let's look at the defence though, one of the big reasons we were relegated yet not the only.

Foster has been brilliant fine but if Dahlberg ever had a chance surely now was it?

Cathcart, Kabasele, Femenia & Masina all proven to not be good enough for the Prem. Still here. So even if we get up this season, we're still going to need three or defenders again as WTE & Ngakia deserves their chance to prove themselves at that level but starting any of the others would be the literal definition of insanity. Jury's still out on Wilmot.

Then we look at midfield, 32 year old Capoue, 31 year old Clevs who's just been given a contract extension. Chalobah who's getting there but at 26 needs a sharp upturn to be a valuable Premier League asset. Quina could be a star but hasn't displayed anything in Champ yet but I don't have a problem with giving him the chance to do so. Hughes is fine. Garner isn't ours.

Sarr, we know.

Pedro, a major plus point.

Gray has proven that Prem is a level too high for him, would have to sell him if we went up tbh unless he has an unreal season, Deeney at 33 will not be useful up there, Stripe we haven't seen enough of yet so will give him the benefit of the doubt, Murray is 37 and dying.

Pervis & Suarez were something to look forward too, both gone.

Had a bit of hope Peneranda would be exciting and revitalised here, he's gone. Cucho's still not here.

I knooooow we need the experience too to get back up and I know I'm being spoilt but just I don't know it all still feels a bit "meh". Would've been nice to have a bit more of a youth injection and a squad to get excited about that not only could get up but stick around again when we get there.

 

Wycombe are poo and we put in a poo performance.

Reading are good and we put in a poo performance.

Sheff Weds are average and we put in an average performance.

Too early to say either way right now to be honest.

 

Blackburn was an OK performance, shakier at the back than what we had been used to before that (though unfortunately positively solid compared to tonight), we created a lot of good chances, but that was more because they were open, rather than us unlocking their defence with clever play, (which contrasts with most teams we've faced, who haven't just allowed us to do what we want, and have been a lot more difficult to create chances). L*ton was a pretty good performance, not a perfect one by any means (we should have been 1-0 down just before we scored, created a few decent chances but apart from a deflected goal didn't take any of them), but it was one of the few in which we didn't just 'nick' a win, and that was against a team who will probably be in the bottom half come the end of the season

 

I did allude to this in the original post, to be fair.

 

Didn't see it, I'm not hugely concerned about the performances, they will get the job done I reckon.

I'm just being an entitled brat who doesn't want to 1-0 win his way back to the Prem to then take our rightful batterings up there anyway.

 

I’ve just slept on it and woken up in soaking wet sheets.
I think Nath is right, this is just the same as last season... No confidence, no flair, no plan, foster saving our ass. We have been average at best in all 8 games and yes we are 3rd so a glass half full kind of person would say “well think where we we be when we start to play well”
I just don’t see it, it’s like the club is rotten to the core.
Wycombe for all their technical flaws against our “superior” players actually played like a team, had a plan, put effort in, And went of the pitch and probably got into their I don’t know? Mid range BMW 3 series, probably 2nd hand? And thought “we really should have won that”

in contrast our players would have got into a Gucci tracksuit and then into a full leather Range Rover with personalised number plate and thought “where the hell is High Wycombe? How do I get home?”
We have collected over our time with the Pozzo’s the biggest pile of crap ever assembled as a squad of players. Mercenaries chasing a pay check, led by someone who history will tell them won’t be around long so they don’t even have to listen, and they know that they will probably see out their days here and be given contract extensions as they are apparently assets?
I’m with Squibb’s I’m bored of giving these players my time, my hopes, and my support at the mo

 

UEA you’ve summed up my exact thoughts on it, and Jumbo, the two don’t need to be mutually exclusive, we should’ve bought a left back, that was a mistake, but we didn’t and now Ivic has to deal with it.

Whatever you think of our players everyone of them was playing at the top level last season, whereas Wycombe were a league one team last season and will be next season. We’re blaming our issue on a left back yet they had a 38 year old clinically obese striker in their first 11.

With the players we have (however overrated they are, they’re all to a man better than Wycombe... who had lost seven in a row) We should be able to turn in a better performance than that.

Maybe Ivic is doing it on purpose, but to me that makes no sense. Surely he wants to be successful, or maybe he’s seen how it is and will be happy to have his contract paid up like all the others.

A final word on Capoue, you can check my posts and you can see I consistently warned people to be carful what you wish for with him. He’s not a competitive type player, he isn’t worried about playing at the highest level or winning trophies. He’s very naturally gifted but its always happier being a big fish in a small pond, rather than pushing himself at a higher level. The Valencia move would’ve suited him from a lifestyle perspective, but if it didn’t come off he’ll have been more than happy to see out his three year contract here, strolling around the middle of the park. You could see his body language on Saturday when ivic brought him in and tried to give him instructions, he wasn’t interested in hearing them.

He’s a great player and will produce the odd moment of magic here and there, but he isn’t going to be the player we need in a championship dog fight.

 

Whilst it was a ***** performance, being this angry, all the time, isn't good for you. Take a month off football pal.

 

I was always part of the group who thought a 12- 16th place finish in the Premier league year in year out was better than perennially trying to escape the championship through promotion. The championship is only good if you get promoted. Otherwise it is a grind.

unfortunately unless your club is the plaything of a seriously rich individual, or one of the established top tier clubs (25 years plus in the top division), what we have now is about the best you can hope for.

If you take a comparator - Reading. And edge of the metropolis club. In a prosperous town with a modern stadium. A club with a long history as a lower tier, and recent times where an investor spent money to get the club to the top of the pyramid.

They spent two seasons in the Premier League. Followed by four in the Championship. Promoted as champions, they spent one more year in the Premier League. Which ended in relegation and 19th place. Since then they have struggled in the second tier. Finishing 7th, 19th, 17th, 3rd, 20th, 20th and 14th. Now they are run away leaders of the Championship and the only side to defeat us this season. They picked up a manager from the USA, with no experience in the EFL. There 7th in five years. They recruited in the summer - bought an 18 year old from Liverpool and picked up a free transfer from Shrewsbury.

 

where are all the people who said they were glad we were relegated because the chumpionship is more fun?

I want to LOL at them right in the face.

 

Stop being such a COG, it's really tedious.

 

Will people ever stop psycho analysing on here? I'm not "this angry, all the time" - whatever that's supposed to mean exactly - I say my bits on an internet football forum and in-between go about my day/night in a normal way.

Why people insist that I must be some sort of constant, rage filled monster in day to day life because of posts on a forum I truly have no idea. It's really not that deep and it's far more weird than my "angry" posts.

 

The longer you follow football, the more experienced you get at ‘developing feelings’ for how things are going.

They say the table never lies, and that’s true up to a point, but sometimes you know inside a club can be in a false position.

My sense at the moment is that something isn’t quite right with us.

We blew two points on Saturday, and I think true promotion teams would have simply shrugged that off, rolled up their sleeves and travelled to play the (effectively) bottom club and produced a real performance, winning convincingly, showing they were quickly over the disappointments of the previous result.

We didn’t.

And what’s more, I’m reading so many comments from others saying ‘oh I knew we wouldn’t win that one. It’s so Watford’ etc.

So in other words, a lot of other people have that inner feeling too that things aren’t quite right.

The set up of the team doesn’t look quite right. The lack of a decent striker, no left-back, a turgid midfield, the 3-5-2, Sarr not being used correctly, nor Sema etc.

It just doesn’t feel right, especially when you look at Reading banging in four on the road, Brentford finding their feet, etc etc.

It just about felt ok when we were winning games 1-0. Get a goal, defend it to the death. Ok.

But now we aren’t even doing that. Looks like we’ve been found out. And can’t or won’t change things.

It’s not about being a bedwetter or a COG or whatever this week’s in phrase is.

It’s just about what your inner self tells you about what’s playing out in front of you, often backed up by a few seasons worth of experience, however old or young we all are here.

 

errr I think you answered your own question

 

Just like the rest of us Nath, you spend all day on this forum in your pants chain eating packets of Wotsits.

 

I genuinely don't understand what pleasure, if any, some of you on here get from following Watford.

And for all this talk about horrible '*****' football, go and watch our goals against Bournemouth and Blackburn. Two of them are two of the best team goals i've ever seen a Watford side score.

 

Why are people pinning any hope on Andre Gray's return? Have you forgotten how dreadful he is? Just because we've dropped a division doesn't mean he's suddenly going to be able to control a football, pass to a teammate, stop running offside, stop falling over his own feet when through on goal or stop shinning the ball out for a throw-in when it would be easier to score.

 

To be fair Luton and Blackburn are the only two games I didn't see any of, so maybe I've missed some high points and my perception is coloured accordingly.

 

Yep.

 

Is it worse than last season in the PL? From memory, last season was f***ing awful.

I wanted to stay up, but we've already got half the wins we got in the whole of last season. We get annoyed at a draw because we now go into every game with the possibility of picking up 3 points.

Obviously the main reason football is **** at the moment is Covid. I wouldn't care about last night if I was in the crowd with my mates after six or seven pints. Weekday evening games used to be my favourite, but now they're a chore.