Yeah of course, but you do have to remember we are Championship now. Pedro and Gray are like new signings, Dele Bashiru, Wilmot and Sema the same, could even chuck Cleverly and down the line Quina in there. The positive with this league is we don't need to sign new players, we have those who are very good Champ players but weren't good enough last year for the step up. I'm not entirely convinced we need to sign many more players.
How does keeping Welbeck count as 'doing well'? We can't afford to play him! I'm sure plenty would be more than happy for Dawson and Femenia to go.
I don't know anything about affordability but he's obviously good enough for the championship, as are Dawson and Femenia.
The issue with this is *if* we get promoted, some of those players you mentioned are not good enough again. Would rather we signed players for this season and the future (people like Suarez or Estupinan).
Maybe 'good enough' for the championship. I honestly would be too concerned about them leaving though. Dawson in particular is crap and seems to have a weak mentality. As others have said he would be cheap and easy to replace (Mapps). Sounds as though we'd be far better off selling Welbeck than keeping him (£££)
If we're talking financially fine, I don't know what we can afford and honestly not my problem. Why has Dawson got a weak mentality? Seemed up for the fight end of last year and haven't seen anything to suggest he is weak since...
If you are a very limited footballer, you need to compensate with desire and drive. If you compare Dawson to Mapps and Kabs etc he seems to be lacking in this. I get the impression that he doesn't particularly care and he thinks he's better than he is. I think commitment is the word I was looking for. Of course this is imo.
I've said this before, we should try to keep a lot of last seasons team as most of them are more than capable at this level and should help us big time to bounce straight back to the PL. Having said that, most of them are probably not good enough for the PL any more, therefore the time to offload these guys would be after we have won promotion back to the PL at the end of this season, not now.
I'm not sure ability was the biggest issue last season. Our mentality was mostly poor. Needing a new attitude means either them upping their games or leaving. Shipping out players is a need for us in our situation even beyond the finances. While retaining enough quality. I can understand Ivic stressing need for commitment to the cause as a prerequisite for playing.
This is the irony imo. Lots of people on this forum appreciated this last season and never wanted some of these players to ever play for Watford again but now the same people get irate when some action is actually being taken to rectify this.
I think most people are more upset at the sale of Estupinan and Suarez and worried about losing Sarr. Nobody is really kicking up a stink about Doucoure and Pereyra going or possibly losing Deeney and Kiko.
It's a balance but culture change is tricky. There's a Gen. Colin Powell quote along the lines of 'The best way to reward the high achievers is to get rid of the underachievers' I think Ivic understands how easy it would be to undermine those giving their best.
That's including me, although I'm not judging the window until it closes. There's a few want to keep everyone.
Indeed. He's the main embodiment of the "culture" which saw us relegated. He's the club captain, the mouthpiece of the team etc. Sure he goes in for a big shoulder charge here and there to show his willing, but it doesn't extend to being fit, leading a positive mentality in the dressing room or on the pitch or actually showing for the ball ever.
IMHO Welbeck may have to re negotiate his contract at Watford if he wants to play. I cannot believe any Prem side will clog up their squad with a striker who is likely to break down . Better to look for the player who has a decent injury record. Secondly if Watford cannot afford his wages ,if he plays, then that leaves the ball in Danny's court . However , clearly, I am not privy to the details in his contract.
Maybe. I’m certainly gutted about losing E and S and worried about losing Sarr. But it’s the same principle that if E and S don’t want to be here then they won’t offer the commitment we want and need like some of the crap we saw last season. I think Ivic is probably doing the right thing albeit it’s pretty scary and depressing seeing some of the line ups. Sarr is the real test now and very much in the balance. Hughes worries me too as he’d be a big loss.
I wonder how hard the 'don't want to be here' card is being played? Almost any player who has an offer of playing for a bigger club for more money will want the move, but why do other clubs retain good players for a year or two at least? Suarez and Estupinan were seemingly happy to play at whichever club they were farmed out to, for a few years. They were also seemingly happy to come back to Watford and join preseason and be part of our plans for the season. Why then, did it all change so drastically or indeed, did it? Is our club a toxic mess inside that persuaded them that they needed to move, or in fact did they not agitate at all, but were more or less ambivalent to the higher level discussions which were driven by the club looking to sell?
I don’t know for sure. But I suspect that other clubs also tend to lose their best young players to other clubs and we are no worse. After all we, as a relatively bigger club, have have successfully poached players like Richarlison, Sarr, Pedro and Danny Graham etc. Did Sancho leave the Horns due to toxicity or due to money/prestige/agent pressure? I’m not sure it needs any explanation other than same as it ever was.
Leventhal said he had spoken to a source close to Estupinan and that it was always his intention to move to one of the bigger clubs in him and that even if we stayed up there was no guarantee we could hang onto him. However, he intended to be professional about it - and thus he came to pre-season and trained / played until the bid was received. It seemed more likely we would be able to hang onto Suarez, but I guess once the big clubs started looking at him, the championship was a hard sell. I can't imagine pulling him out of the playoffs massively endeared us to him either. Still - as far as we know he was professional and came to pre-season and trained / played until the bid/serious interest was received. Honestly don't understand how anyone can really have any bad will towards either - they have no reason to have any affection towards the club, and yet still seem to have behaved far more professionally than the likes of Pereyra, Capoue and Deeney who are supposedly our key players and have captained the side.
I don't get the impression that they didn't want to play for us tbh. More that they would rather play for someone else. It seems like we are struggling to sell the likes of Deeney and they are desperate to take any money that's available.
Yep. Unless we want to pay him £50k/w more to play ? Or find someone to take him and match what we are paying. Or renegotiate a lower package so we can afford to play him. Who blinks first ?
The best negotiator in the world, architect of a renowned world class scouting network and football genius v Danny Welbeck. It's a toughy.
Yes, finally looks like the fire-sale is back on with Capoue, Sarr and Delefou all looking to leave today. Happy days for all, bed wetters get to bed wet and Pozzo lovers can mark it off as good business.
Sarr and Geri off, Pozzos lowering the demands to try and shift Capoue as well What a truly despicable day
Fully expect anyone of quality to leave today and we will bring in a load of rubbish. "Greatest scouting network, in the world" In the voice of Jeremy Clarkson
