[SOLD] Luis Suarez

Discussion in 'The Transfer List' started by reids, Feb 8, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    We have views on who's played well, who should be dropped, who we should looks to sell, what formation is best etc etc. But this isn't a matter of opinion. We can't have a view on whether the bonuses should have been paid or not as we haven't seen the terms and I would presume nor has Leventhal.
     
  2. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    But then surely you can’t have a view on finances for the coming year because you haven’t seen the terms of the contracts or terms on our liabilities? You can just use your best judgment of the situation as you see it?
     
  3. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    And if he scores 2 he might be only worth £5m. It's a gamble isn't it, and a question of how much we need to raise, and who else we could keep if we sell him.
     
  4. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    But we know the liabilities and their key terms as they are in the accounts. Likewise the assets. We know the drop in TV revenues. What we don't know is the level of detail Gino/Scott see to know exactly what they need to raise, but we know enough to know there's an issue.
     
  5. onion8837

    onion8837 Reservist

    He was first class. Left his stamp on the club, to be frank.
     
  6. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK Reservist

    The same with several of the others who currently aren't being picked we don't know who is driving that, there is every possibility the club have gone to a few players and said sorry chaps can't afford your wages this year and you have no relegation clause so please find yourself a new club and we'll keep you away from the risk of injury while you do.

    Suarez did at least have some involvement in pre-season so is a recent addition to the naughty list, assuming he isn't ill or injured of course. It is quite possible that we aren't getting the level of interest in others and are now looking to sell him whether he likes it or not and have taken him out of the firing line.

    Not really aimed at you barely but quite a few are suggesting various players are downing tools, sulking, refusing to play etc.... when we have nothing that suggests they are doing anything of the sort. If any are then of course that is very poor and they deserve to be slated but I suspect that is not the case and many are getting slagged off for no reason, and may yet end up staying anyway.
     
    barely1egal likes this.
  7. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    And you don’t think we know enough to know there’s an issue with bonuses last season?

    I beg to differ so I’ll continue to have an opinion on it.

    Dangwrous game really to start telling people what they can and can’t have opinions on?
     
  8. Hairyfrog

    Hairyfrog Squad Player

    I know exactly how many he will score for us if we sell him.... BIG FAT ZERO. I know he's unproven in the English leagues, but wasn't Cleverley raving about how good he was in an interview? Seems a shame to not at least play him while he's here.
     
    barely1egal likes this.
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Yep. An interview posted officially by the club. Another case of promoting him publicly to fans endorsed by the club.

    What I will say is that they’ve spoken more regarding Suarez than they have Estupinan - I still think the club have been naive promoting Estupinan but he played a league higher than Suarez and it may well have been the case that they knew they would struggle to hold on to him. Perhaps there is more willing to hold on to Suarez as Leventhal has suggested - it’s just the fact it’s been suggested that we have loosely entered talks that is worrying.
     
  10. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    There clearly is an issue, or certainly seems to be

    So is your opinion that they were due these bonuses and should have been paid them, or that they weren't due them and they were rightly withheld ? And that opinion is based on.....?
     
  11. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    That's bizarre. A player saying that one of his teammates is great. Wonder why.
     
  12. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The Athletic wrote a piece on the Allam’s at Hull City and the club in question issued a statement refuting the allegations. The Athletic doubled down on their story but at least the club gave their right to reply.

    We have been silent on the article that is libellous if untrue... so as a fan, I’m using my judgement of what I see that is in front of me and forming my opinion of what I’ve heard (or not) to date.

    I’m happy with my stance. So let’s move on.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  13. BusheyOrn

    BusheyOrn Reservist

    Just on finances, we are one of the least affected clubs by the loss of gate receipts, not to say that it isn't still a lot of money. In addition we have good income streams for tat all around the world now and of course loan deals, was it 17 last year? Maybe more. So we will of course sell but it definitely isn't a fire sale and I'd imagine the club have a total in mind of required income they are looking for, remembering that transfer income is paid in installments over the period of the contract. My worst guess would be 40m with a couple of high earners also off the books.
    My feeling is that Suarez and Estupian will only sell at the right price.
     
  14. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    I really don’t get this fee of £15mil.

    Darwin Nunez went for £21-25mil depending on which report you read. Scored 16 goals, 5 of which were penalties. 11 goals from open play.

    Luis Suarez scored 19 goals, 3 were only penalties, so 16 goals from open play.

    Yes Suarez played a few more games, but if Benfica are shelling out £21mil+ on Nunez. Then that easily puts Suarez in the £25-30mil bracket.

    Suarez also got 4 assists to Nunez’s 3.

    For all you chart nerds, you can see from the chart below that Suarez is a better player in most areas.

    We really should be asking for a minimum of £25mil

    9C756945-1CC8-43C0-906C-CFE38E8C552F.png

    P.s I don’t want us to sell him. We should be everything to keep him here. Even if he doesn’t want to be. Once the window closes he will have no choice but to knuckle down and get in with it. If we do sell him then it has to upwards of £25mil. Anything less than that and Gino has been be done again.
     
    Watfordftw and barely1egal like this.
  15. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the article said there was an issue with bonuses not being paid but didn't say whether they were due but not paid or not due. If bonuses should have been paid it would be very easy for the players lawyers to get the club to pay. Maybe it was written to be vague and subjective. It seems there was an issue but we have no way of knowing whether they were correctly or incorrectly withheld, though the fact they haven't been enforced suggests they were discretionary or not earned. But we are just guessing....
     
  16. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    The trouble is "the right price" is a gamble based on how their career will develop and how desperate we are for cash and cost savings....
     
  17. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    And how often do Segunda Division players go for £20m+? Maybe the odd Real Madrid or Barcelona B player, but for a player that doesn't belong to a big team? Obviously we'll want more than that, but Ayoze Pérez went for just €3m a few years back, and he scored 16 in the Segunda. Benfica also managed to finish last season, Marseille didn't, so I would hazard a guess that they have more money to spend
     
  18. Cude>2<

    Cude>2< First Team Captain

    Do you think the Pozzo's are entertaining selling people for 'bantz' or something? It's clear we need to raise cash. Would you rather we sell people who have experience in the Championship like Hughes? I know in the ideal situation we'd flog Gray, Deeney and Success for 60m somehow, but that isn't happening. If someones got to go, I'd much rather it's someone who's value is based on a decent season outside of England.
     
  19. Cude>2<

    Cude>2< First Team Captain

    So whats the other choice? Keep everyone and risk FFP/Admin?
     
  20. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    Times have changed. Championship players used to go for peanuts, but we have just seen Ollie Watkins go for £30m.

    Tenerife were also a newly promoted side at the time so that would have been a proportionally pretty large amount for them.
     
  21. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Well times haven't changed in Spain. Segunda is way below the championship as has been explained.
     
  22. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    It's not really comparing like with like bringing Ollie Watkins into this, the Championship is better than the Segunda, and both Brentford and Villa are far richer than anyone in the Segunda (and most European teams too). Besides, clubs putting those price tags on Championship players is nothing new, it would have taken even more to sign Mitrovic and Grealish back when they were Championship players, it's just Brentford sold themselves as a stepping stone and managed to get a very good striker from the league below as a replacement

    Nunez is also a full Uruguay international which must have added a few million to the price tag, Suarez has never played internationally at any level (think I saw on here that he's waiting on playing for Spain rather than Colombia?). As little as I know about Suarez, I know less about Nunez, 11 non penalty goals and 3 assists, surely there's something up there? Is he actually a proper striker?
     
  23. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    Obviously not, but just because you are relegated does not mean you need to sell every player on your books just to stay afloat.


    We have already sold the best part of £40m of players and shifted one of our highest earners. Even if we can't shift them - Deeney and Welbeck's contracts are up in 12 months even if we can't shift them which is 5-7m off our books and Andre Gray's is up in 2 years which is another 3m off our books. There will also be no difficulty getting Deulofeu's wages off our books - either through a sale or a loan.

    Suarez is a young player, with potential and on fairly low wages - he is the kind of player we should be desperately trying to keep about. We should not be selling him just so that we can afford Deeney et als wages unless we absolutely have to. There are nearly 40 days left in the window so what is the rush.
     
  24. Hogg-DEENEY!!!

    Hogg-DEENEY!!! Squad Player

    3 out and out strikers is fine, 4 would be good, but not absolutely necessary, how many teams in the division have 4? Besides, Joao Pedro and Sarr (fingers crossed!) are able to play there if need be
     
  25. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Way below? A lesser standard I’d agree but I don’t think there’s a huge gulf between the two.
     
    barely1egal likes this.
  26. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    Im not trying to say he is worth the same as Watkins I was just talking about inflation generally.

    By the same logic though we are significantly richer than Almeria who were able to hold out for that amount.

    Yes - he gave a quote last international window about wanting to play for Spain if the chance arose (although it could be fishing for a cap from Colombia).
     
  27. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It's very similar to Serie B in Italy whewre there is next to no interest from fans or TV and so income and quality is very low. As has been discussed today the success rate of players brought in from this league is very low. I think the bottom half of La Liga is champ level and top half of Segunda is League 1 at best.
     
  28. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Well, having no good players isn’t a gamble. It’s surrender. Better we gamble on one or two than deliberately build a shhte squad.
     
  29. Cude>2<

    Cude>2< First Team Captain

    Might have missed something - but £40m worth of players? I know Doucs has gone, and some small fairly unknown reserves like Becerra - Has another been confirmed? If so, you need to ask how much is money up front. We need cash now, not in installments over the next 3 years. The club appears to have borrowed up to the max against the clubs assets (haven't had a deep dive into the accounts as yet), and I really don't think they saw this relegation coming.

    Add Covid into the mix here - Cash is king. Clubs will be favouring structured deals in the current uncertainty over paying cash up front, whereas we need cash up front. In this circumstance, it's quite reasonable to have lower fees on transfers, but with the benefit of having the cash now, instead of installments. When you need cash, you need to look at where the active market is - A young player on the back of a good season is always going to be more attractive than a clogger like Dawson - For all we know as well, the club could be trying/planning on keeping Sarr but that means others need to go. Suarez hasn't exactly come across as if he's wanting to play in the Championship, and a lot will depend on his character on if he has the appetite for it. As I say if keeping a Hughes or at a push a Sarr means Suarez goes then I won't be disappointed, but lets not kid ourselves, the financial situation isn't bright and we need to sell.

    I believe the window is less than 40 days away - Isn't it 5th October?
     
    Hogg-DEENEY!!! likes this.
  30. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    Can't imagine this Colombian source is particularly reliable, but they claim we're seeking 40m Euros for Suarez. http://www.eldeportivo.com.co/noticia/lo-busca-un-grande-francia

    Seems a bit high even if you (as I do) view the Pozzos generously. I noted in another thread that the cost of finding an adequate replacement for Suarez is significantly higher than finding an adequate replacement for Estupinan. I think many have concluded from the Estupinan sale that it means were willing to part ways with our South American contingent for low prices but the fact that (in Manning or Giannoulis or a couple of other options) we can bring in a good, new LB for less than 5m and the fact (if true) that Estupinan has only a year left on his contract makes it difficult to extrapolate from one to the other.

    Still, I agree that the Nunez fee should be a benchmark. Probably helpful to point to to Suarez's entourage as well and say "this price is fair, Nunez scored fewer than you last season and cost the same amount." I would happily sell for 25m Euros and bring in Karlan Grant for 15m.
     
  31. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    when things stink this much, this often, it is naive to assume that it’s all a misunderstanding every single time.
     
    luke_golden likes this.
  32. LeedsOrn

    LeedsOrn Reservist

    5th October for the international window and 16th October for domestic transfers.
     
  33. Cude>2<

    Cude>2< First Team Captain

    It'll be sell a few who have a good market rate at the moment, then we'll buy on the cheap/rely on loans ala Murray.
     
  34. barely1egal

    barely1egal Reservist

    Estupinan has not been announced, but a good number of reliable sources have said it has been done at circa £15m + addons.
     
  35. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Yes but given we need to sell the Q is which ones do we gamble on. I don't think they're deliberately building a shhte squad.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page