Who Stays And Who Goes?

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Hogg-DEENEY!!!, Feb 9, 2020.

  1. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Are we really comparing Alexander-Arnold to Femenia? Hilarious, but go on then. Alexander-Arnold is an average but young and likely to improve defender, with world class ability on the ball. Femenia is a thoroughly woeful, ageing and extremely unlikely to ever improve defender, with very little ability on the ball.

    Basically, what you're saying is that the long and short of it is that it's not Femenia's fault he's an appalling defender and we should give him a free pass for it because we don't score enough goals. Bizarre.
     
  2. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    Goalkeepers:

    Foster - Stays

    Two year deal signed, doubt he will want to move again this late into his career.

    Gomes - Leaves

    Contract expires, will retire.

    Bachmann - Stays

    2nd Choice behind Foster.

    Will need 1x GK for backup, would predict academy.

    Center Backs:

    Cathcart - Stays

    Few years on contract, 3rd choice.

    Dawson - Stays

    Likely would be our starting CB in Championship.

    Kabasele - Leaves

    Think a promoted side may take a punt on him.

    Mariappa - Stays

    One year extension, will be last choice in pecking order.

    Spencer-Adams - Stays

    One year extension offered.

    Will need a starter CB. Would take Pontus Jansson if he is available.

    Fullbacks:

    Femenia - Leaves

    Think he would have takers overseas than stay in Championship. Contract expires next year.

    Janmaat - Leaves

    Will not want to play in Championship.

    Masina - Stays

    Long contract, not done enough to earn move away. Could have options in Italy though.

    Holebas - Leaves

    Contract expires.

    Will need 2x RB's of starter quality. 1x LB of starter quality.

    Central Midfielders:

    Doucoure - Leaves

    Hasn't shown up enough this year, but a move I think would rejuvinate him elsewhere. Should have been sold last year with hindsight.

    Capoue - Leaves

    Has been one of our overall *better* midfieliders, sure he has admirers around the globe.

    Hughes - Leaves

    Mid table side will want to snap him up, really stepped up where few other have.

    Chalobah - Stays

    Will be one of our starting XI for sure and not done enough to get move elsewhere. Think on a personal level that will do him good.

    Cleverley - Stays

    Has been injured for too long of a period and not done great this year for a Premier league side to take a chance with him.

    Quina - Stays

    Will probably be first on bench and impact sub.

    Dele-Bashiru - Stays

    Likely loaned out I think. Not ready for Championship based on Tranmere game but quality is there so could be kept for push back.

    Will need 3x CM's. Two starter quality, one rotation.

    > Wingers:

    Sarr - Leave

    Will likely got for slightly less than we paid. If we're able, maybe loan him to a Premier League side so if we are able to bounce straight back up we can retain him.

    Deulofeu - Stays

    With his injury, I would be surprised to see a club take a punt on him right now. Will likely see how we are come January and whether we are likely to get promoted.

    Pereyra - Leaves

    Heart not with it this year, should have been sold last year for both parties sake.

    Penaranda - Stays

    Could be make or break for him. Certainly has something about him but that doesn't look promising now. Still on long contract.

    Pussetto - Stays

    Will likely make a starting spot his own next year. Fairly versatile, able to play RM, CAM and ST.

    Strikers

    Welbeck - Stays

    Clubs will be put off by his injury history otherwise would be in Leave category.

    Gray - Stays

    Proven Championship striker, still has a few years on deal.

    Deeney - Stays

    Has been quite frankly awful this year, playing through injury only making it worse. Would prefer sub role but wouldn't past club using him as starter.

    Pedro - Stays

    Given he hasn't featured much this year and length of deal, suspect we will use that to hold him and give him plenty of minutes next Season.

    Success - Stays

    Injury will put off and suitors. Will probably leave in January unless he somehow proves he is a capable Deeney replacement though unlikely as I do not think he's happy here.

    Loanees:

    Dahlberg - Loaned

    Needs game time to show what he is capable of. Highly rated by club.

    Wilmot - Stays

    I would wager he will be a starter and gets partnered with Dawson next year. Looks the business when he plays.

    Estupiñán - Leaves

    Has a lot of potential suitors, and will have leverage to make it happen. I don't begrudge him it.

    Foulquier - Leaves

    Likely sold or loaned again to Granada.

    Navarro - Leaves

    Likely sold or loaned.

    Sema - Stays

    Unless Udinese make a good offer for him I suspect he will feautre heavily next Season.

    Sinclair - Loaned

    Will look for game time elsewhere. Contract expires next year.

    Stuparevic - Leaves

    Udinese were very interested in him a few months ago.

    Hernandez - Stays

    Club are determined to intergrate him to team, he seems happy to join us properly.

    Suarez - Leaves

    Similar to Estupiñán.

    Predicted Lineup next year:

    ---------------Foster---------------

    New RB - Wilmot - Dawson - Masina

    ---------Chalobah--New CM---------

    --Pussetto---Cleverley---Hernandez--

    ---------------Welbeck---------------

    Subs: Bachmann, New CB, New RB, New LB, Quina, Sema, Deeney

    Full predicted squad:

    Foster, Bachmann, New GK

    New RB, New RB, Dawson, Wilmot, Cathcart, New CB, Mariappa, Masina, New LB

    Chalobah, Cleverley, Quina, Dele-Bashiru, New CM, New CM

    Deulofeu (Injured), Pussetto, Sema, Hernandez, Penaranda, New Winger

    Deeney, Welbeck, Gray, Pedro, Success
     
  3. Supertommymooney

    Supertommymooney Squad Player

    Two things.

    His legs.
     
  4. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Of course I am not comparing ability. I am comparing the position they play in .
    Full backs are the new box to box midfielders.
    19 teams x 4 full backs 76 full backs of various ability .
     
  5. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    The issue in regards to our defense isnt that our strikers dont score goals, its that our forward line doesn't retain possession so that the defense is always under pressure. Theres no out ball, and its become more obvious since the restart with how direct we've become
     
    Davy Crockett likes this.
  6. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    This is a great post .
    As well as scoring goals a front 2\3 have to "show" for the ball to relieve pressure.
     
  7. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Nothing changes the fact that Femenia has consistently proven himself to be a terrible, weak defender for almost his entire time here, including last season when we performed better than we are now. Why that is so hard to accept I truly cannot fathom.

    Watford fans are aware that sometimes footballers just aren't very good or good enough, right? There isn't always a "but, er, but..." excuse for everyone, as much as people clearly so desperately want there to be.
     
  8. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    What about our striker (who's name escapes me right now) who is knocking them in for Udinese right now, shouldn't we bring him back? OKAKA that's the one :D
     
  9. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    You are absolutely correct to point out Femenia limitations and that he is not in the same class
    as Trent A-A . However if we swapped Trent for Kiko then our problems would remain the same .
    If we swapped Troy Andre Success for Inngs then we would instantly be improved.
     
  10. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    I fear for Kiko,not as a super rich athlete but because he appears to be changing into Frankenstein's monster.
     
  11. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    All of our problems would remain the same, except for the fact that we wouldn't be stuck with an abysmal, worst in the league, not fit for purpose right back any longer and our back line would be immediately improved both defensively and in terms of quality on the ball.

    Your logic on this is completely nonsensical.
     
  12. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    I'd take Frankenstein's monster over Femenia at right back every day of the week.
     
  13. Carpster

    Carpster Squad Player

    I understand in a way. But Trent has over 10 assists this season and a few goals. But yes a quality forward is essential. I'm sure the majority of clubs in the Premier would want ings.
     
  14. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Really !
    And a 20 goal a season striker would not improve our position?. Wow !
     
  15. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    That is a very good point but would he get the same opportunities for his assists
    if he played for us ? Whereas Inngs has banged in 20 for a bang average Saints
    In fact where would they be without him?
     
  16. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Erm, where exactly did I say or even imply that whatsoever?

    You said if we replaced Femenia and Alexander-Arnold our problems would remain the same, I then explained how that's not at all true and how it would make a difference.

    I would have thought it was pretty obvious that replacing any player in the team with a much higher quality and more capable player would have a positive impact.
     
  17. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    So you question whether Alexander-Arnold, arguably the best ball playing right back in world football, would get his assists etc. for us, but in the same breath insist Ings would still bang in goals in our awful side. You couldn't make this up. Both would obviously have some sort of measurable, positive impact.
     
  18. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    My point was that it doesn't matter how good the service is if the strikers are shanking the ball.
    Yes Trent A-A is quality we are both agreed but if the recipient is Andre as opposed to Salah .......
     
  19. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    Inngs would score in our team . No doubt . Who would doubt this?.
    You think an average full back would stop him scoring ?.
    I don't .
     
  20. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    But the fact in all of this is that you're excusing Femenia, his awful defending, his zero input in an attacking sense and his consistently terrible performances, because our strikers don't score enough goals.

    The reality is that both are true and both have a negative impact on our performances - our right back is utter dog **** and so are our strikers. It's not one or the other and one doesn't make the other less relevant.
     
  21. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Thoroughly depressing prediction. Probably not too far off
     
  22. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    Except Janmaat will stay. He has said as much, that he'll see out his contract here.
     
  23. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    I am not excusing him

    If for example Liverpool swapped Trent and Robertson for Kiko and Masina would it affect them ?
    Of course it would .
    But would it affect them as much if they swapped Mane Salah Fermino for Deeney Gray Success?
    Or Manure swapping their full backs or swapping Rashford Greenwood Martial ?.
     
  24. dynamo380

    dynamo380 Reservist

    Femenia is a confidence player. When his confidence is up he has generally done ok in all fairness. When it isnt we get west ham type performances or he disappears. Then again hes a winger thats been converted to full back and it shows at times. He's better than the alternatives we have at the club currently, which is why I consider RB to be a priority position this off season.
     
    Supertommymooney likes this.
  25. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    I agree . But where does a defensive players confidence come from ?
    I would say knowing that attacking players are capable of doing their
    job .
     
  26. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    This is utterly pointless. Again, none of this changes the point that Femenia is awful and a part of our problems, and these constant imaginary player swaps with other teams and the guesswork about the comparative impact they'd have are completely irrelevant.

    Again, you are simply finding weird ways to make excuses for the leagues worst right back by trying to demonstrate how others are impactfully worse. Believe me, I'm well aware that Femenia is not the only useless swine in our team and far from our only problem, but the fact remains that his embarrassing defensive ability and lack of any other redeeming qualities as a footballer play a role in our sh*teness.

    He is nowhere near good enough and needs to go, as do a number of others. End of.
     
  27. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    You might do. But why spend money on a RB when you can continue to play a winger you got for free there?
     
  28. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    I just think that you are posting with emotion as opposed to any common sense .
    Yes you don't like Kiki. Others more qualified than either you or me would disagree ?
     
  29. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    Yes, I (and the large number of other fans who agree with my stance on him who aren't at all hard to find either on here or on social media) must be wrong because the only fit right back at the club is continually picked at right back by default of being our only right back, as we sit 17th in the league on the verge of relegation. Cool.

    You've just said that neither of us are qualified to actually have an opinion anyway, so we may as well end this worthless discussion, close down the forums and keep all clueless, unqualified fans and their unimportant thoughts away from football permanently.
     
  30. Davy Crockett

    Davy Crockett Reservist

    I didn't say that you are not allowed an opinion . These are your words not mine.
    I said that your opinion is derived from an emotional pov and those that are
    qualified and who have removed emotion may have a different point of view to yours.
    This said you have valid concerns about our full backs .
     
    HappyHornet24 likes this.
  31. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Simple really as the title says, below is the list of players currently registered to the club on Transfermarkt.co.uk plus one or two additions. Obviously will vary hugely depending on what league we are in, but for the sake of argument and likelihood this is assuming we are in the championship next year.

    Who stays and who go's? Feel free to copy and paste my list with your own feelings and comments. Obviously I have been fairly cut happy here, and would never expect to let this many players leave in one go but it is my IDEAL scenario.

    Goalkeepers


    B. Foster - Go
    P. Dahlberg - Stay
    H. Gomes - Go
    D. Bachmann - Stay

    Although I don't particularly have any problem with Foster, i think it would be best for the development of the team going forward that he moves on. I think one of the promoted clubs would certainly be keen to have a goalkeeper of his calibre. Bachmann and Dahlberg will not progress whilst being 3rd and 4th choice.

    Defenders

    C. Kabasele - Go
    C. Dawson - Stay
    C. Cathcart - Stay
    A. Mariappa - Go
    A. Masina - Stay
    J. Holebas - Go
    K. Femenia - Go
    D. Janmaat - Go
    D. Foulquier - Go
    M. Navarro - Stay
    T. Wilmot - Stay
    P. Estupinan - Stay

    Perhaps the most important area of the squad to revamp, next year we need to see players like Wilmot, Estupinan and Navarro step up and take on a key role. I actually think Kabasele, Dawson and Cathcart will perform ok in the championship. I've put Masina down as a stay but would like to see him play more in a central role. Femenia I have put as a go, but would not be averse to him staying in a more advanced role.

    Midfielders

    E. Capoue - Go
    N. Chalobah - Stay
    A. Doucoure - Go
    W. Hughes - Stay
    T. Cleverley - Go
    D. Quina - Stay
    T. Dele-Bashiru - Stay
    R. Pereyra - Go
    G. Deulofeu - Stay
    I. Success - Go
    I. Sarr - Stay
    I. Pussetto - Stay

    This area definitely needs toughening up for the championship. Its time for a bit of a revamp. Chalobah is worth persisting with and if he can get his confidence back could be huge for us next year. I fear Sarr and Deulofeu will both be off, so strengthening the wide men will also be important.

    Forwards

    J. Pedro - Stay
    A. Gray - Go
    C. Hernandez - Stay
    T. Deeney - Stay
    D. Welbeck - Go
    A. Penaranda - Stay
    F. Stuparevic - Stay
    J. Sinclair - Go
    L. Suarez - Stay

    We have a lot of potential here and it will be interesting to see if we can keep Suarez. It will be interesting to see what Hernandez can do, and I think its important for Pedro and Penaranda to have break out seasons. I don't know enough about Stuparevic. Deeney should stay, but play a reduced role in the starting 11 next season.
     
    domthehornet and Chiswell like this.
  32. Optimistichornet

    Optimistichornet Penguin Assassin

    Just to state I will be amazed if we let 16 players leave, but that would give us some flexibility next season and help to reduce the wage bill considerably.
     
    lutonh8a likes this.
  33. wfcSinatra

    wfcSinatra Predictor Choker 14/15

    Can probably be merged with @YellowKicks thread to be fair.
     
  34. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

  35. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Janmaat and Foster have signed new contracts so will stay.

    Welbeck has a 3 year deal I thivk so he is tied down.

    And I cannot see IF we do go down all these young loan players coming back.


    Sarr and Doucoure will go plus Pereyra.

    Defence will be as it is and hopefully Hughes /Chalobah will stay as they would be good in the Championship.
     

Share This Page