So What Should Actually Happen - Poll

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by Ybotcoombes, May 15, 2020.

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What should happen

  1. Void season no winner no relegation

    82 vote(s)
    55.8%
  2. End season using a mathematical formula

    24 vote(s)
    16.3%
  3. Restart in June

    5 vote(s)
    3.4%
  4. Restart when safe , play until season is ended , worry about next season later

    33 vote(s)
    22.4%
  5. Something else

    3 vote(s)
    2.0%
  1. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    Watched that thing with Jamie and Harry Redknapp that Troy was on the other day. They were trying to make the case for a restart making a lot of players better without a crowd on their backs if they do something wrong. I’d imagine playing behind closed doors might actually be a significant advantage for West Ham.
     
  2. Bwood_Horn

    Bwood_Horn Squad Player

    Geordies have just posted this:

     
  3. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Would they hold the behind closed doors FA Cup final at Wembley?
     
  4. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    No, not quite the same, first because the seasons were completed. But there was also no concept back then of relegation from the league - that came with the development of the ‘pyramid’.
    In those days clubs were members of the Football League (4 divisions), effectively in perpetuity, but the League reserved the right in its rules to elect a new member in place of a poorly performing one if the members thought it would be of benefit. In practise the clubs would usually re-elect the existing members because next season they could be in the same situation and would expect their votes next time. Just occasionally they would realise that an up and coming vibrant club (usually southern) would bring in more revenue than an old (usually northern) poorly supported one, so that the likes of Barrow and Workington were replaced by Cambridge and Hereford. However, teams did have to finish in the bottom two to be in line to not be re-elected.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Or they knock this season on the head if there is a sizeable amount of players not willing to play. Which I suspect there will be.

    And it will be the next thing to cause dissent. The league said it could go on but players refused - another pile-on to footballers who aren’t in touch with reality for the shallow gutter media.
     
  6. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    No of course not but having a captain and leader on the pitch who actually wanted to play for us over these 9 games might have helped morale rather than creating uncertainty in the squad. I understand his concerns but surely a few weeks staying away from his family to help us stay up isn't that big an ask ?

    I expect he knows he's off in the summer so isn't that bothered which league we're in.
     
  7. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    Then they, as Simon Jordan stated tonight, will be letting football down like Deeney is.

    Not the club about to be bought by a Middle Eastern dictator. That fat lazy brummie **** who stupidly cares about his family.
     
  8. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    As a father of a young child and husband of a wife who miscarried in the past 12 months, I can say there is no way you’d have me playing in his position unless it’s 100% safe. If my child had been born, she would now be the same age roughly as Troy’s - if she had a respiratory problem as his child has then absolutely no way.

    I’m sorry, but it’s a huge ask in the circumstances he’s in.

    During this pandemic so far, the positive news has very early been instant - it’s been a slow burn. I suspect a number of players will want to see much more progress made before they are comfortable - and as the last months have proved, that progress probably won’t come quickly.
     
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    What Simon Jordan doesn’t know about football and reality, frankly isn’t worth knowing.
     
  10. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    If he stayed away from home for a few weeks until the games completed his son would be completely safe. As club captain, leader and a key influence on the pitch I think a few weeks away from home isn't an unreasonable ask.
     
  11. sydney_horn

    sydney_horn Squad Player

    Yes, despite what some believe, Deeney is a big player and a big character in our squad and will be a big loss.

    Don't get me wrong, I believe the risks are extremely low for the players and staff concerned. I would play if asked!

    But this is not about opinion or statistics. It's about feelings, beliefs and circumstances.

    It may not be logical but I genuinely think Deeney believes the risk is too great in his mind. Like a lot of emotional decisions, it can look like a mental aberration from those on the outside.

    Neither of us know him personally, but he doesn't seem the sort of player to let down his mates, teammates and fans without reason. I would believe that of some of our players but not Deeney,

    I think it's very possible to believe he is wrong while still having empathy for him and giving him my support.
     
  12. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I understand his son has respiratory issues so clearly Covid is a risk for him as well as being BAME. If it was me I wouldn't take any risks what so ever. I would loved to have played football professionally especially for Watford but not at the risk of endangering my kids health and for me I don't see why we would try and make Troy play. Sounds like his heart wouldn't be in it and I would say that's a major issue for a player like Troy
     
  13. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Not wishing to trivialise tragedies, but the facts are that only 2 babies have died in the UK from coronavirus and they were both pretty much newborns (3 days old and 6 weeks old).

    Troy is the only player it seems that has refused to return to training from both the PL and the BL.
     
  14. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Has Troy even said anything though about how his decision may impact his teammates, fans and the club? (Assuming that he is being genuine and not still acting on Watford's behalf to try and get the season voided)

    In the clips I've seen of him he hasn't acknowledged them at all, and just said that he doesn't need to play anymore anyway as he's earned enough money already.
     
  15. dsr

    dsr Academy Graduate

    I can understand Deeney's point of view. But where his logic falls down is that he has been playing for the last five months through the heart of the flu season, and flu seems to be a lot more dangerous to children than coronavirus is. On average, 166 children per year died of or with flu in hospital between 2000-2008 (can't find more recent stats).

    People do work away from home for quite long periods. Armed forces and oil riggers for example. It's not unprecedented.
     
    Otter, HappyHornet24 and lowerrous like this.
  16. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Do we even know the extent of Troy's child's "respiratory issue"? It doesn't appear to have been mentioned anywhere until the last week. It wasn't something which happened early on anyway as the baby was brought home in a normal time-frame without any issues.

    In fact, here's an interesting quote from Troy not too long after his son had been born:

    "Deeney, who returned from a knee operation in late November, failed to find the net in the 1-1 draw at Sheffield United on Boxing Day but that match came directly after he became the father of a boy whose name the Watford captain is not yet making public.

    “He was born on the 23rd and we came home on Christmas Eve,” he said. “The other kids don’t care that we’ve had a baby, they just want their Christmas presents, so we dealt with that and I drove up on Christmas night to be with the boys and then stupidly played against Sheffield United.

    “I’ve had about six hours sleep in four days but you would have had to nail me to the floor to make me not play. That’s not my nature, I’m always going to play. Sometimes to my own detriment but it’s a short life that we lead so you have to embrace it while you are there.”"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...overcomes-lack-sleep-sons-birth-fire-watford/
     
  17. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I think it would be more than 3 weeks.
     
  18. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    I am sure before he was all for cancelling the season anyway.

    He seems to be calling Deeney out for not wanting to play but collecting his wages ..

    Well I got the impression Troy wouldn't be bothered if the wages were cut as health is all important to him.

    BTW a baby can develop issues maybe not spotted at birth.

    I am sure he isn't making that one up!
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  19. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    I understand Deeneys decision but I think it will relegate us. It sends a message to the rest of the squad when the captain aim doesn’t want to play, even if there are genuine reasons. I thought that the virus was very low risk for children
     
  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Don’t worry, I know you aren’t trivialising it.

    We both have our own well-versed views so not point rehashing it!
     
  21. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    What’s the point you’re getting at? Because he didn’t disclose a very personal matter about his child’s health, it should be doubted as being true?

    Also, take it from my experience - an illness in a child can take time to come to light or diagnose. The fact it wasn’t highlighted when he took his child home is totally irrelevant.

    As for you point on another post, maybe he should have made a passing comment about his teammates and club. But he is clearly the type of character who places his family way above all else. And quite right too.
     
    wfc4ever likes this.
  22. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    David Ornstein on Twitter...

    Watford worst hit in latest Covid-19 tests.
    1 player, 2 staff. A ‘number’ of players have decided against training tomorrow.

    And people still debating Troy’s motives.
     
  23. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Yep fair enough.

    I just wanted to make the more specific point that the fact that Deeney's son is a baby makes no difference to how at risk they are (or aren't) compared to other children (whose level of risk from the virus is also at a miniscule level). It may sound more dangerous and sympathy-inducing when Deeney mentions that they're a baby, but it doesn't mean it's actually any more dangerous.

    Even the past respiratory problem isn't necessarily an issue either, given that asthma isn't even amongst the top 10 comorbidities for coronavirus (as I've also already pointed out).

    I can leave it at that.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  24. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Well it’s just broken that we have 3 positive tests out of the 6 announced today - and a number of players refusing to train as a result.

    So we can discount it just being Troy.
     
    wfc4ever and davisp2 like this.
  25. davisp2

    davisp2 Reservist

    Ok haven’t seen that. That probably makes it worse for us then
     
  26. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    All liars. We are just trying to avoid relegation. Either that or the rest of the squad are pulling a Troy.
     
    Burnsy likes this.
  27. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    You should drop Troy a line on Twitter with your findings.
     
  28. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    I can see the Twitter comments now !!
     
  29. a19tgg

    a19tgg First Team

    I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with Troy’s stance, I think it was always going to be the case that some Footballers would not be willing to tolerate any risk, however small that risk happens to be.

    Some people are fortunate that they can work from home throughout this so they can avoid as much risk as possible should they deem it necessary. Others are not so lucky, they still have the choice to not go to work, but they don’t have the same financial freedom that a footballer has to make that call as easily.

    At this stage Troy is saying he isn’t going back to training, whatever happens we are a long way from games actually starting up again so who knows what his stance will he then and what the situation will be. Maybe his questions about the specific risks to BAME players will have been satisfactorily answered

    The only thing I would say about Troy (again. Not agreeing or disagreeing with his stance) is that by the time football does start up again, there will have been further loosening of the lockdown. If it ends up that he deems it too unsafe to play and too great a risk to his children, then he needs to ensure he doesn’t find himself doing things that put them at equal or greater risk than playing football.
     
    HappyHornet24 and Jumbolina like this.
  30. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    I'm just speculating that there is still an outside chance Deeney is exaggerating the whole issue for the club's benefit to try and see if they can get the season voided. We just don't know for sure. The other thing about it is that Deeney didn't say anything in public about his son having a problem even in his initial criticism of Project Restart last week - so if he hadn't mentioned it before, even last week, then did he need to add it now? Could he have been trying to increase the pressure somehow? Just putting the possibility out there. We know already that Troy is willing to say plenty of things for the sake of publicity.

    My other point was one about the quote which I put in italics in the comment you were replying to, where Deeney explicitly states: "you would have had to nail me to the floor to make me not play. That’s not my nature, I’m always going to play. Sometimes to my own detriment but it’s a short life that we lead so you have to embrace it while you are there.”"

    So in a few months he's gone from saying that he's determined to play pretty much no matter what, to suddenly trying to find every possible reason not to play (not only his son, but also all his stuff about hairdressers etc.). As others have pointed out already on here, if he was really determined to play (as determined say as he claims to be in that above quote, for example) then there are feasible solutions which would enable him to do so without putting his child at further risk.

    Rather than someone else needing to "nail [him] to the floor to make [him] not play", he rather seems to be doing everything he can to "nail [himself] to the floor to make [himself] not play".
     
  31. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    2 staff members.

    Must be the Pozzo master plan to make themselves ill..

    Just one player.

    Although apparently now that means we are all refusing to play so should be docked points straight away and all games voided ..
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  32. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    At what point does it become futile arguing against football not being in a position to continue?

    I genuinely ask, what’s the breaking point? What would it take?

    As we have 3 individuals struck by it tonight and a captain who is leading a bunch of players in not playing for health reasons and a manager who agrees with them given his comments. And a club who likely is behind the health and safety efforts far more than the restart given how close we have been to the NHS throughout this.

    When you look at the fact that several individuals at Top 6 clubs have raised similar fears...

    How much is too much?
    https://www.watfordfc.com/news/club/club-statement-covid-19-tests-confirmation
     
  33. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Whilet many agree with Deeney loads of others think we are making a fuss about nothing and trying to get the season stopped ( along with Brighton)

    So no don't think we are going to get many backers.

    Particularly from anyone inside the top 6!

    Already calls to dock us points as "punishment" for not controlling our players ( well the one ..)
     
  34. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    As I said in an earlier post. Football does not give a sh1t. It's big busines and it needs to get going again as far as the governing bodies are concerned. The ONLY way to stop the season is for someone to die from Coronavirus from within football. Nothing else will cut through.
     
  35. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    All this, just to stay in the PL?

    Relegate us now. Couldn’t care less the way some are carrying on.
     

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