Pozzo Out

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by RookeryLad, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    But I think that's a false equivalence, as the aim isn't to do that anymore. It's not the stated aim of the club hierarchy and I think the fans expect more too.
     
  2. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Hahahaha....
    You seriously think that they genuinely want to spend the money to become "the best of the rest" ? Do you really think us fans would be happy if they said that the aim was to just survive each season ? Do you think they'd be as attractive to potential signings ? Look at their strategy for Udinese....
    Even if their genuine target was to finish 7th, do you think that's achieveable given how we'd be outspent year after year ? I guess that was their target for this season....how are they getting on ? ;)
     
  3. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    But now you're presenting life for us in the PL as a choice between aiming for 7th or just doing the minimum to survive, which is far too binary. I've certainly never said anything about us finishing 7th, so I don't 'seriously think' any of those things.

    If you care to, read what I said again:

    I said the stated aim wasn't getting to 40pts. Because it isn't.
    And I said fan expectations are higher than that now. Because they are.

    Despite the happy happy super ambitious (aka for non-fan consumption only) narrative presented by Duxbury, I think the aim is probably to finish top half. It has been since Silva was appointed. We can all argue to what extent they've made good decision or bad decisions on the path to that - and frankly, a lot look bad at the moment - but I think that is about what they're targeting.

    People can say midtable PL is boring. It is. Though it also provides a platform to go further in the cups - something we've done twice in four PL seasons so far but would have little real chance of under Pozzo in the Championship. And ultimately it's no different to the Championship, in that after spending a few years there everyone becomes boringly familiar. Christ, there was point it felt like we played Reading and Ipswich about 4 times a year. Zzzzzzzz.

    If you want to chop it all in for the fairy tale of some sort of swashbuckling, "will we, won't we?", boys' own Championship adventure that's up to you I guess. It makes no sense to me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  4. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Absolutely. 4o points is pure fantasy. We are now just aiming to beat Derby's record low.
     
  5. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I wish we weren't taking it quite so seriously though!
     
  6. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    You'd rather enjoy watching small clubs beat bigger ones on Match of the Day than have your own team play at the highest, most visible level of competition available to it, with all the level of play, players and spectacle that that entails?!
     
  7. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    I think it's more about those Remainers being aware of what that 'step forward into the future' would actually entail, rather than any 'misinterpretation' :confused:
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  8. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I don't think mid table would have ever been any thing other than an occasional unexpected peak as last year was.
    As the dearly departed Rookerydad used to say, if your player budget is 3rd bottom, that's where you should set your expectations.
    How can you say the championship becomes boringly familar ? 6 new teams to play every season and "the top 6" not set in stone as it is in the prem, plus the top half have the playoffs to go for until very close to the end of the season. Every season in the prem we are just one of about 8-10 teams that might go down and this time it looks like our number is up.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  9. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    I see the watford supporter who used to run McDonalds is leaving the company. If he became part of a consortium (and defacto chief executive) to buy the club (it will be cheaper after relegation) would his priority be improving the side be the defence and strikers or the drinks and salads.
     
  10. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    It's another one of the upsides. I've explained above why just surviving in the prem for as many seasons as we can before we get relegated, and getting beaten most weeks isn't much fun other than the odd scalp here and there. Yes there has been the odd great win but think of the months of **** under QSF first time, the collapse under Mazz, the Silva debacle, the collapse last season, this season so far.....what's the point ? We're not going to win anything are we, ever ?
    Let's get an independent view - Nath, how much of the past 4.25 seasons have been enjoyable :) ??
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  11. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    I sort of see your point, but throughout everyone of those periods I've enjoyed the far greater visibility and, yes, 'relevance' we've had, as well as the players we've been able to watch turn out for us who we would never be able to see in the Championship. I've enjoyed seeing Guardiola and Klopp and Jose have to come to the Vic and play against our little old Watford, and I think getting beaten most weeks is quite an over-exaggeration of what our Prem experience has been like (present season currently excluded).

    I've also enjoyed the enormous improvement in the ground itself, something I'm fairly sure we wouldn't have been able to achieve in the same way had we never been promoted at all. Winning something is not necessarily the absolute prime for me, other than individual matches, as it's so ludicrously unlikely given the complexion of the game in this country today, but at the same time that chance certainly isn't going to go up if we go down a division and suddenly find ourselves with far less money and far worse players (even if that might seem hard to envisage at this precise moment given our current rotters' recent performances ;)). We aren't going to be winning anything in the division below either, unless by some miracle it's the Championship title, which is hardly a prestigious 'trophy' in itself and we are probably eternally cursed to be unable to manage given our last attempt. That's on top of the fact that, as we've discussed here at length, indeed, there's no guarantee we'd even be being particularly successful down there, let alone coming back up.

    Frankly, I like it here. I don't want to go. Shame it's out of my hands, eh.
     
  12. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

  13. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I enjoyed getting here and I expect I'd enjoy getting here again if it happened.
    But I've not enjoyed being belittled on MoTD, hammered by the big boys (usually), the pain of defeat after defeat, the forum bikering about who's fault it is that we can't finish 7th or run Citeh close in the final.
    Ultimately you get to the conclusion that football is pointless. Winning promotion only gets you to a tougher place where you're more likely to lose. Relegation takes you to a place where you're more likely to win. Win and we all go home with a smile on our face, whether it's beating Leicester in the prem or Rochdale in Div 1.
    Of course when push comes to shove I'll be desperate for us to win until any hope is gone this season but I just won't consider it's the end of the world when we go down....
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  14. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    If I think back to when the Pozzos arrived in 2012, once the initial relief that Bas was gone had dissipated, I would have expected/hoped that they would have got Watford promoted in 3 years and that they might have been able to keep us in the PL for 5 seasons. So in that regard their achievement is about on par to me. However, I didn't expect us to have such a smart stadium.
     
    Shakespearo likes this.
  15. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    I don’t want the Pozzos to go

    I think they are good business people and can see the value of the premier league and being in it. I think this season will have taken them by surprise and must have put them into a state of mild panick . Although it’s easy to say that we have been crying out for a striker and a new defence etc this is the first time since we have went up that we have been in the relegation zone. I think the only thing I would really criticise them for is managerial appointments , but even that you could argue up until now has been ruthlessly efficient.

    The prem is littered with financial giants (Chelsea / Man City) , con artists (man utd), owners with no interest in football (Newcastle) , rich people that don’t spend huge amounts (Arsenal / Tottenham - until recently) , at least with the pozzos they have a financial investment in the club and they win or loose with the club.

    Clearly I would swap for an Emirates (not sure about ibramavich) and would love for a billionaire fan to take us over and spend millions , but would take Pozzos over most of the Prem owners any day. Problem for Watford is we will never compete for top spot , we will never buy a player for £150m but then again neither will most of the other teams in the prem.

    out of interest i wonder how much they would loose if Watford went down (club value)
     
  16. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I think our stadium is still pretty ****. It just seems better than it is because it was dilapidated even for the champ. Aside from building a new east stand on the cheap, which looks like it's a temporary structure, the other 'improvements' are mere tinkering around the edges.
     
  17. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    It seems pretty strange to me that anybody would dislike life in the PL so much that they'd be happy for us to be relegated when our ambition would then be to have a great season in the Championship so we could get back to the place we'd just left which they didn't like.
     
  18. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    If you expect calm, fair & rational reasoning, you're in the wrong place.
     
  19. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    It’s almost as if the crapper we get, the more people romanticize the Championship. The reality of life at that level will likely shatter any romantic ideals relatively quickly.
     
  20. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Think back to what it was like in 2012, inside and out, and then tell me what we have 7 years later isn’t pretty impressive.
     
  21. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    It's better than a very **** stadium, but it's far from impressive.
     
  22. CleyHorn

    CleyHorn Reservist

    What would you have done instead?
     
  23. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Sold the club
     
  24. lutonh8a

    lutonh8a Squad Player

    The Pozzo family leaving would be disastrous for this club, we are not going to get a billionaire Arab, we have sensible owners that know football well, we are in safe hands under the Pozzos family. Frankly they have been a God send for this football club and have developed the club further than I ever thought was possible.

    If someone would have told me pre Pozzo we would have 5 seasons in the Premier League and got to an FA Cup Final, a 4 sided ground that isnt an embarrassment, and that we would be in a position to turn bids down for out best players rather than just sell cheaply to get by, it would have seemed too good to be true.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  25. The Recluse

    The Recluse Reservist

    Looks like they're going.

    Well, looks like their involvement at Udinese could be lessening anyway as they seem to be trying to invest in another Italian side, Pordenone.

    Here's the article.
    http://sportwitness.co.uk/watford-o...tment-new-club-may-reducing-udinese-spending/

    Unlike the old days in which people bought one club and stuck to it, these days wealthy owners have their fingers in many pies.
    It’s a growing trend for owners to invest their money in several clubs and create networks across the globe.

    One such set of owners are the Pozzo family, who own Udinese in Italy and Premier League side Watford.
    At two clubs their football family is rather on the small side, and that’s something they’ve been keen to change, with their eyes on another Italian side.

    TuttoUdinese report that the Watford owners are trying to become shareholders in Italian side Pordenone but are struggling to get it over the line.
    The website claims that they were looking to get a minority shareholding in the club but, so far the shareholders at the club are refusing to pass it.

    They then explain that in reality, it is ‘difficult’ for the family to enter into the management of another club given they are already ‘engaged’ with both Watford and Udinese.
    However, that may not be the case moving forward, with the same website suggesting the Pozzo family are reducing their investment in Udinese.

    That’s at least according to Maurizio Domizzi, who currently plays for Udinese, as he hinted the family are investing less in the Italian club moving forward.
    “In the past, they have invested so much between Udinese and Watford,” he told the website.
    “I believe that a period of adjustment in which we invest less in quality is normal. They (they Pozzo family) obviously have a very precise path in their head.”
     
  26. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    Would that awareness include believing the Osborne-inspired civil service prediction of exactly how much Brexit would cost over the next 30 years? And they say the Leavers lied!
     
  27. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    I mean, the leavers did lie, it's a matter of documented fact.

    You can question the exact figures produced by the civil service, but it's really just a matter of 'how much we'll lose'; there's no question of a lie. Unless you're suggesting we will somehow be financially better off in the next 30 years, in which case you'd be going against pretty much every economic forecasting tool, economist, and pretty much all of the leaders of the Brexit movement, who have often talked about 'short term pain...'. 'Short term' funnily enough apparently meaning several decades, by which point most of the people who voted for it won't even be here; the old 'Turkeys and Christmas' classic.
     
  28. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    No, turkeys don't vote for Christmas because of the short-term pain: Another misinterpretation.
    So, democracy (and old people) can **** off out the window for economic gain - would seem to be your argument.
     
  29. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    If you're talking about determining the future of the country, its economy and influence in the world for the next half a century or more at least, then it is indeed perhaps the case that the 'old people' who not only enjoyed an incredibly favourable background to grow up and establish their own lives, but won't actually be affected by the negative consequences that come from 'taking back control', should **** off to a slightly greater degree than those who it will predominantly affect, yes.

    Similarly, by the logic of the claim that 'democracy' is under threat, does that mean that we should never hold a general election again, as a party was voted into government once, so that must therefore be the 'will of the people' which we are subsequently beholden unto forevermore?

    To be perfectly honest, the suggestion that most people who did so voted for Brexit because of the prospect of long-term economic gain is ridiculous to the point of disingenuity.

    Turkeys don't vote for Christmas at all. That's the whole point of the saying. And you keep talking about misinterpretation?
     
  30. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    They don't vote for Xmas for 2 reasons;
    1/ Turkeys don't have the vote yet in 2019, and
    2/ The cancellation or not of Xmas is not subject to a vote.
     
  31. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Thanks for reminding me why I never visit the politics section. Now desist and leave our football forum. We need to prepare our depression and anger/delight and amazement for tomorrow night.
     
    Cassetti's Beard and EB Hornet like this.
  32. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    You honestly think we are going to get someone better? I must have missed that huge queue of potential owners who want a mediocre team from a unfashionable town with third tier level supporter numbers and no history in terms of actually winning anything.
    We are hardly a large glamour team - itll be someone like Baz or worse.

    The pozzos have made mistakes but this is still our second best period in our history, to want them gone doesnt make sense because we aint getting anyone better.
     
    Knight GT likes this.
  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    Did you actually read my post? I said if they want to sell after relegation then it would be best for them to get it done quickly. Why would you want an owner who wanted out?

    If they want to stick around and rebuild then great.
     
  34. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    I may have misread then
     
  35. RookeryLad

    RookeryLad Reservist

    Absolute incompetence shown in the running of the football side of the club.

    Average if you like steak and high corner seats.

    SELL UP, GET OUT.
     

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