Pozzo Out

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by RookeryLad, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Chelsea, Man City and RB Leipzig have fairly similar models to us in terms of recruitment, and it works for them, so.

    This summer was a relatively rare duff transfer window from them. Maybe they've lost some of their ability and focus, and have been too conservative in the market, or maybe they'll have learned a lesson from it and correct the mistakes in future.
     
  2. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    In fairness it's been savvy enough before this season. I think to call for them to leave is a little unfair when this is the first major issue they've had since arriving. I hate the term "look how far we've come" but it's difficult not to look back over the last few years under their ownership and not say it's been pretty successful.
    They don't have the money of pretty much anybody else in the Premier League so they feel the best way is to do what they are doing. Mistakes have been made recently as I'm sure they are aware of but this is our 5th consecutive season in the Premier League, we have a ground that we can actually be proud of, we've been to a cup final and semi final and even flirted with qualifying for Europe. Except for the first spell under GT this is far and away the most successful period in the clubs history and considering how different football is from the 80's you could say that it's a better spell.
    We all knew that it would come to an end at some point and maybe this is the season we do get relegated but for me Gino has plenty in credit currently and should without question still be backed by the fans. That's not to say he can't be criticised, of course he can and should be because this season is not going well obviously but there are plenty of bad owners out there and I believe we still have a very good one.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
  3. Aberdeen

    Aberdeen Academy Graduate

    I don't feel the European model of constantly changing managers works as well here. Clubs like Burnley and Bournemouth are probably the best formula for clubs like ours who will never compete financially with the big boys. I am not sure I would even want Watford to have billionaire owners who tried to do a Chelsea or Man City on us. We are going to be incredibly lucky now to survive this season. If I were the Pozzos I would be looking to see who would be the man to lead us back out of the Championship. If relegation is more or less certain by February/March bring in the new man with a clear brief and get the personnel in the club ready for that. It wil mean a lot of player changes but unless we continue the Tales of the Unexpected we need to be planning ahead now.
     
  4. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Sorry moog, but this thread is a much of a gross overreaction as all the fawning love given and mystical powers people attributed to the Ponzos in recent years.

    We have every reason to be upset. We've had worse sides in the past make a better fist of staying up than the current shambles. On paper, it's probably the strongest Watford squad ever assembled. And after four seasons in zero real danger it seems inexplicable we'd go from that to plum rancid last. If it seems like this was avoidable, it's probably because it was. But the key to good ownership is learning from this. Mistakes have been made and, whether we stay up or not, the next bit of Gino's ownership will make or break how the fans remember his tenure. How does he change things? Does he invest and put his neck on the line, or bang up the 'for sale' signs and run it like he's about to sell it?

    On the spectrum of football owners we'd struggle to find much better than Gino for a club of our size. He has a solid football and business background, rather than living in some fantasy wannabe football chairman world. He doesn't court the media and the bills are paid. Under his ownership I'd say we've gone from a top 40 club to a top 25 club. Implicit in that though is sometimes we may end up relegated when the music stops.

    Bear in mind other clubs occupying that bracket are the Newcastles and Villas etc, but those clubs have an appeal to a calibre of outside investor ours never will. When it comes to other owners, we're never going to attract a sheikh or the petromegadollars needed to transform the club beyond all recognition. We're much more likely to attract chancers, asset strippers and life's losers.
     
  5. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I think the biggest thing those clubs do is accept their head of recruitment/director of football has a shelf life of 3-4 years. The best ones move around and are poached. Giraldi has been given oversight of two teams at once (and three when Granada were in the fold), and seen them achieve some pretty decent things, yet he's still here. Either he's too comfortable or no bigger club wants him.

    For me, a big 'must do' for next summer is to recruit a Watford-specific DoF or head of recruitment. Take a further step back from the Udinese links, which must prove a distraction at times, and concentrate on our needs and forward planning.
     
  6. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I'd genuinely rather have a more traditional owner, focussed on running 1 football club, without all the Pozzo baggage and go back to being a Championship club.

    Being a premier league side who will always have 1 hand tied behind its back in competing with the rest, due to our size, combined with having the other hand also tied behind our backs, because of the way we choose to operate, is never going to be successful in the long term and in my view, it's dull as piss to follow a club with the lofty aim of 10 wins per season.
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  7. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Aren't you at risk of wanting to go back to the Championship in the same way Brexiteers want to go back to the 1950s? The world has moved on and I'm not sure you'd really like it if we wound up back there. It's easy to be seduced by memories of something that never really was.
     
    Chumlax and Robert Peel like this.
  8. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Me too.
    I'd feel happier now if we'd just beaten Tranmere 2-1 to go 5th in Div 1 than see us losing again after another defensive performance as we struggle to eke out survival in the prem until the inevitable happens and we drop through the trapdoor.
    I said last season that I felt we have had a bottom 6 squad for the last 4 seasons and it was simply amazing we'd not even flirted with relegation. I also said that we would probably look back in years to come on an 11th place finish and a cup final as the high water mark for decades to come despite the general view that we should have finished 7th and 11th was a disgrace. I'm sure that will be the case and can't wait to start next season in the champ without a pile of expensive imports who feel they are too good for us busy negotiating their next deal with the highest bidder.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  9. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I have to admit, I'm only half serious and my thoughts are jumbled. I do hate the Pozzo but realistically, I don't have any viable alternatives to propose or hope for.
     
  10. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    With respect to the above post, many of us have seen us relegated from the top division three times, yes it’s nice to spend a Saturday evening having had a home win v Millwall or collected three points at Barnsley, but (and here comes the trade off) its very rare for a relegated team to be promoted the next season, once on a downward slope it continues for some time until things start to get better!

    Players with any value (and which any other team will buy) will be off, gates will be down!, staff will be let go!, there won’t be a queue for season tickets, non-essential maintenance on the ground will stop!, we won’t be mentioned in dispatches, and most importantly of all if we don’t get promoted within three years our already reduced “ Sky payment “ will be back to a couple of million a year!

    I would take a struggle for points in the top division than struggling in the next one down anytime!
     
    Chumlax and Knight GT like this.
  11. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    And we've already had some of them. Why on Earth would we want to risk going back to that? And UEA is right: There would be a high chance we would end up with that sort of owner.
     
  12. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    I don't think for a minute we'd come straight back up. The initial focus should be adjusting and making sure we didn't drop straight through the champ. The sky money means nothing to me. Nor does the loss we are making due to increasing outgoings to more than our mahousive income just to try to stay in the prem.
    I'm fed up of not being able to enjoy watching MOTD or enjoy the little clubs beating the big clubs because of the adverse impact it may have on us.
    I'd be happy with the Pozzos in the champ, it's this obsession with the prem and the mercenaries we have to employ that I can't stand...
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2019
    wfcmoog likes this.
  13. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Quite an overreaction IMO given the context of a club of this size/reach/marketability. In any event can't see any wealthy individual having the funds to purchase nowadays, so it's going to be a group.

    Maybe they would speak to the new Granada owners, they've done business before & that deal is going pretty well for them.
     
  14. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I do actually get your point. They are not perfect and all the veiled silence around everything does my nut in sometimes. However, nothing is perfect. We had BBB previously and what a disaster that was. Most owners we have, have limited resources and have to run the football club as a business. That will always put limitations on a club like Watford. We do not have the fanbase to sustain a Premier League club, unless you have someone who is so loaded that they don't care about losing money. Most owners want to make money or at least create some sort of improved revenue stream. Getting to the Premier League creates this.

    But as we've seen, it's so hard to get to the Premier League and stay there. It's a miracle that a club like Watford has been able to achieve this. Burnley and Bournemouth too. All three clubs should not be in the EPL by rights, but they are because of good ownership. Look at Leeds, Forest etc. The list is extremely long for clubs in the Championship and below who would place their clubs above Watford in the pecking order for Premier League football.

    It does look like we've now hit the buffers, but it was a good run and I believe even if we do go down this year, the Pozzo's would get us back up within 3 years again.

    I would also like a one club owner who loves Watford and the only motivation is the success of the first team, just for the joy of seeing them win. Unfortunately these people don't really exist. The next best thing is what we have. Maybe their motivation is not all geared for making Watford a brilliant because they love the team, but does it really matter what the motivation is, as long as we're successful?

    Being bottom of the Premier League is still successful. We are still in a league many thought would be impossible to ever be in again just 7 years ago.

    Put it this way, if I found out the Pozzo's would wanted to sell after relegation, my heart would sink, as I suspect we'd get a useless joker with big promises and no idea taking their place.
     
  15. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    What makes you so sure about that, I'm not so sure next time as people will have more idea of what we're about. I'm actually more concerned about us doing a Sunderland, Stoke, Bradford, Portsmouth (delete as appropriate). We were lucky not to do that last time we got relegated.
     
    domthehornet likes this.
  16. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    I thought your previous post was a good one; but I do wish people would stop dropping heavy-handed political jibes into a football forum. For the record I am a convinced Brexiteer and going back to the fifties is absolutely not the reason - it would be one of the last things I would want to do. Quite the opposite in fact, it is seen as a step forward into the future. You misinterpret the situation, as do many Remainers.
     
  17. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    Already this season is far more enjoyable than the last 3 in this league. I wonder how big the queue for season tickets will be in April?
     
  18. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Just my belief based on what they have done in the past. Not only with Watford but other clubs. Even though they've made a pig's ear of it this season, they are expects in running football clubs. I think their credentials are quite incredible.
     
  19. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    I'm sure we all remember the promotion season in The Championship and probably fondly remember Zola's season except the play off final but those that would be happy to go back to The Championship, do you remember a lot of the other seasons when the football was terrible, quite often struggling in the bottom half. If we go down there is no guarantee of a season full of wins and loads of goals. You only have to look at the likes of Stoke or Huddersfield to show that's not always the case. It's a great league if you're going for promotion, like any league to be honest, but sometimes the reality is far from what some may think will happen. Give me the Premier League any day
     
  20. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    We'll be American, Asian or Uncle Bas owned. Can't wait.

    Edit. Valley Grown Salads van seen in the car park.
     
  21. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    My post could have had the word 'some' before Brexiteers, I grant you. Otherwise though it was simply intended as a topical analogy aimed at moog specifically, who I knew would get the point without needing to debate the politics. Apologies if it offended.
     
    Forzainglese and wfcmoog like this.
  22. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Half of the league are going for promotion due to the play off system.
    Stoke are a bit of an exception but it will be good to have the possibility at the start of the season of promotion or relegation rather than just constantly looking over our shoulders to see how big the gap to 3rd bottom is and hoping we can scrape 11 wins from 38 games just to survive.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  23. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    The best owners can make mistakes. Even Elton did (see Dave Bassett). Things do seem to be unraveling a bit, but I can't believe any Watford fan feels anything but great warmth towards the Pozzos. Duxbury and Giraldi are a different matter
     
    The Recluse likes this.
  24. Teide1

    Teide1 Squad Player

    Without Mr Pozzo and his son it would be extremely unlikely we would be as well off as we actually are, let’s not forget that!
     
    nfh and Knight GT like this.
  25. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Duxbury goes hand in glove with Gino to be fair. Not sure I'm that fussed by him, as although his talk is cheap, he has generally delivered a nicer stadium and I'm sure advised Gino of the merits of recognising GT etc.

    Giraldi though seems to hold all the football cards and, given that's the reason we all go to games, he's the one I'd say is or should be in the fans' firing line.
     
    EB Hornet and folkestone orn like this.
  26. Aberdeen

    Aberdeen Academy Graduate

    I think we can get too obsessed about the Premiership. While we are in it I want us to do as well as we can. If Leicester can win it then anyone can. I look for us to do as well as we can each season whatever division we are in and I have supported the Horns in every division. If you are in the Premiership you expect less good results but to see better players not only for us but in the other teams too. Relegation is as much part of football following as is promotion. If we are relegated I want us to get back up - not to think that I would like us to constantly miss out because the Premiership is too difficult. There are different challenges and expectations whatever league you are in.
     
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  27. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    Fair enough. Although, personally, I think there's something quite irritating about Duxbury so he's staying on my 'sh 1t list'
     
    wfcmoog and UEA_Hornet like this.
  28. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    Just Stoke? Huddersfield, Sunderland, QPR, Hull City, Cardiff, Middlesboro, and more, The top 2 currently haven't been in the Premier League for years and one of them never has in fact
     
  29. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Not sure what you're point is ? Did you think I was suggesting we'd be nailed on for promotion ? My point was that most teams relegated then can be genuinely open to relegation or promotion so the future becomes a lot more exciting. Yes Stoke and Boro are struggling, but WBA, Swansea and fulham are pushing for promotion/playoffs, cardiff and Hull are midtable etc....
     
  30. lowerrous

    lowerrous First Team

    Rather than being a Premier League club who will always have 1 hand tied behind its back in competing with the rest, due to our size, we'd go back to being a Championship club who will always have 1 hand tied behind its back in competing with the rest, due to our size. Have you really forgotten the days of when Adam Le Fondue was a dream signing that was slightly out of reach because he'd end up at supposed "bigger" Championship clubs like Reading and Cardiff?!

    Large Championship clubs with more "regular" owners, such as Stoke, Derby, Middlesbrough, Birmingham and Blackburn, have been languishing back down there for a while now with little in the way of hope and glory, despite their "lofty aims" of gaining promotion.
     
  31. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I'd love the excitement of being linked with, but missing out on a Le Fondre, than landing our chosen free transfer from a lower La Liga side who is involved in preseason, but then loaned out to Belgium.
     
  32. StuBoy

    StuBoy Forum Cad and Bounder

    I agree with this, Duxbury has gone far down in my estimations after his delusions of grandeur last season. Appearing on the radio with all his comments about us pushing for the top 7 etc etc.. I'm all for ambition at the club, but be careful what you say and wish for. Duxbury comes across a bit as an engage mouth before brain kind of fella.

    Maybe I'm being overly harsh, but just how I feel on the matter.
     
  33. Knight GT

    Knight GT Predictor extraordinaire 2013/14

    So you would rather be fighting relegation in The Championship than mid table in The Premier League? I get that you are saying it's exciting as there are more positions to aim for but bottom half of The Championship is not where we want to be just for a bit of excitement surely
     
  34. leighton buzzard horn

    leighton buzzard horn Squad Player

    100%. I won't claim to be in the majority with that but I'm certainly not alone. "The premier league is the place to be" is generally peddled by the clubs and Sky.
     
  35. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    No the other way round.
    I'd rather be mid table in the championship with the chance of pushing for a play off place or risk of slipping towards the bottom 3 rather than just aiming for 40 points every season in the prem.
     

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