Liverpool like getting it wide. We played narrow. Keeping the ball in our own half playing well v cardiff 3-0 up is fine. Doing so away at liverpool from the outset with their pressing is suicide. The difference in keeping it tight for 30 minutes, and what we did is the scoreline. They get 2 goals in 20 minutes and liverpool enjoy the game, the fans enjoy the game and it's easy for them. 0-0 at 30 minutes and theres impatience all around we could have worked on.
Games against Liverpool, Man City, Spurs and Man Utd, especially away, should always see us lining up 4-5-1 or 5-4-1. Especially for the first 45-70mins. Park the bus and make it difficult for them. Frustrate them into making mistakes. It was stupid to go 4-4-2 and keep the same line up. Luxury players like Pereyra can’t handle games like this. Javi has done phenomenal, tonight he got it wrong. Hopefully in the games against Man City and Man Utd he will play 4/5 at the back. Goal difference could be the very thing that gets us into Europe, no need to play attacking football against teams that will pick us a part of we do. Annoyingly I had us down to beat Leicester, but with the new manager bounce, you just know we are going to lose. Would gladly take a point now if offered.
It was virtually a free hit with Wolves losing, the biggest loss more than the zero points is how we still managed to eat into our +4 goal difference advantage. Our next few league games after Leicester are literally top six, bottom three, top six, bottom three etc so form is going to be up and down but if we keep pace with Wolves then their game at The Vic suddenly becomes very interesting! I reckon Gracia would've learned today and will approach United & City games slightly differently. P.S - I really hated him last year but I missed seeing Holebas out there today. Remarkable turnaround.
Agreed, would take a point. Always take a point. I would take a point in every game we ever play from now until the end of all of time.
I was more depressing than the scoreline up until 4-0, but that fifth goal tipped the balance in my favour.
Unfortunately Gracia went gung ho and their pace ripped us top shreds. He really got it completely wrong, could have been 10 - 0. Your can't go to Anfield and play a high line 442. If it is 0 0 with 20 minutes left, that is when you can think about opening up. Hopefully he learns a lesson for man city...
I don't think it is fair to pick out our fullbacks for criticism apart from acknowledging that, like the rest of our defenders, they just aren't world class or good enough against the top players. Their worth is not so much tested against the top few teams on form but the other 14 or 15. Our defence holds their own against the rest of the division. Last night, our full-backs were totally left exposed by Pererya and Hughes to their wide players like Trent Alexangder-Arnold and Salah, Robertson, Origi and Sane. We know that Salah and Sane are top, top players on their own. To pick out Jannmat and Messina for blame, is like blaming Foster for the goals. Gracia yet again demonstrated that he struggles making meaningful changes as a game progresses. Why keep Pererya on, he was completely ineffective, when Quina desperately needs game time? Quina is better at defending for a start, is far more likely to get stuck in, and keeps the ball better too. When the game was effectively lost, why not bring on Penenanananeneneranda, who at least poses some physical presence and threat to a defence that pretty much had Deeney and Delefoue in their pockets. Overall, it was a rotten performance but I'm not too disapppointed. We can only hope to pick up the odd point playing away against the best teams. But we have a good chance in every other single game we play.
With a point a game, we would be relegated about once a decade, despite an unbeaten record. Also, David Sawyer would be out of a job.
Liverpool haven’t lost in 34 games at home. A smaller margin would have been nice, but who really cares in the grand scheme of things. Once again, we complain when the media puts our victories down to the other team’s ineptitude, but cannot accept when we are beaten by a much better team that it’s their superiority and performance rather than our deficiencies.
Goodbye plus goal difference. It felt good knowing you but like a casual fling after a night out you just aren't our type.
Really not sure what people were honestly expecting. Going to Anfield with the scousers chasing the title and our defence including Janmaat, Masina and Mariappa. They are on a different level to us.
And we'd never get promoted if /when we did get relegated so eventually we'd cease to exist as we'd just gradually keep slipping down the leagues
The main thing that upsets me after all this is goal difference. All I ever wish for is a positive one. If we finished bottom with a positive GD I would be content.
Grazia haters have suddenly come out of their bedrooms after sulking under the pillows for the past week.
This is why Liverpool are so detested, (amongst many other things), I've already had a Liverpool fan here in my office telling me where Watford went wrong. He's never been to a match in his life. W*nker.
I expected us to lose but I'm really angry that we are losing/lost. Said someone on the shoutbox. Not tough to work out who.
No-one expected a point and we got no injuries. As long as it was the plan to put bugger all into the game and the team spirit isn't dented I really couldn't give a fig about this game. Was a free hit imho. That begin said we're on telly on Sunday and we're generally **** on telly.
No we did not expect a point so apart from goal difference the result was not so important - but it was the manner in which again we let one of the top clubs hammer us. I would like to see us learn to make these games difficult for the opposition. I am Mr Grumpy for the day now.
To me it’s moronic to play hung ho away to liverpool (or city) when small margins like gd might determine who gets 7th, and a spanking is going to dent confidence. The percentage play last night was to park the bus.
In which case we need better players. WHU didn't make it difficult for MC yesterday, MC just missed a hatful of chances. Nor did Muff make it difficult for the Arse and they are a class below the top 2.
Ok, where to start with this one. Firstly, it wasn't all bad. We created a few chances of our own and Barcelona won 3-0 at Real Madrid . Sometimes a very good team actually plays very well on the day. I've seen Liverpool a lot recently, and that was there best performance individually for quite some time. Their players have been about 6 out of 10 in recent games, whereas they were 8 out of 10 last night and that makes a huge difference. Now to the bad bits. Our weaknesses were ruthlessly exposed. I thought Cathcart, Mariappa and Masina were dreadful. Once again, our old problem of not being able to defend crosses was there for all to see. Now Liverpool do put in quality crosses into the box, it has to be said, but you have to get the basics right in order to defend. Mane was completely unmarked for the first goal. He was in between our two central defenders and was the only player in the box. Cathcart was defending the near post, then it was Mane then Mapps alongside him. Mariappa has to make his presence felt in that situation. He has to either win the ball or put the player off. He was nowhere near him, so a free header after 9 minutes and confidence floods into Liverpool veins. The second goal was the same. Mane is left totally unmarked in the box. This time he takes a bad touch and it looks as though the chance is lost, but he tries an audacious backheel which actually sends the ball up and over the advancing Foster. It was an amazing finish, but I think a little lucky for that to have come off. That said, our basic defending was abysmal in that situation. We then created a decent chance for Deeney. It was a simple side foot, but he got his feet all wrong and scuffed it wide. That's the difference in class, which we cannot do too much about. Had that chance fallen to a Liverpool player it would have been taken for sure. We probably rode our luck in the first half, by keeping it to two and the second half wasn't too bad really until the third goal. It was another limp-wristed piece of defending. I think Janmaat did well enough in jockeying Origi across the goal, where Hughes and Doucoure should have put a lot more pressure on the ball. There was little determination from either of them to prevent the shot which was very disappointing. We did then create a couple of good chances. Gray was put through at an angle. His shot across was ok, but Allison made a decent save. Then Gray missed a sitter. From a freekick the ball was headed back by Masina and Gray volleyed from close range. It did hit Allison's shoulder and went off for a corner, but the keeper should not have has the chance to save it in the first place. Even though Liverpool scored 5 goals, that was the easiest chance of the match. The last two Liverpool goals were pathetic from a Watford point-of-view. A basic freekick directly on Van Dijk's head for a free headed goal. Then a couple of minutes later an identical freekick situation and at least Foster took control this time by punching clear. However, in the next phase of play, the ball is crossed in from the otherside where Van Dijk is still in the area and he heads another simple goal. Throughout the night, even though Salah didn't score, he destroyed Masina. Masina's performance was very similar to the Britos one last season, and was probably the worst display I've seen from a Watford player since that Britos performance. Even though it's easy to get stuck into the team after a display like this, it's probably the first time this season where we've played that badly. I think we need to cut some slack and hope it's just a one off. Here's a quote from Gracia, which I think sums it up quite well. "When there are ten games left, to be 7th, to have 40 points, to be in the FA Cup quarter final - I think the players deserve all my support. The result doesn’t change my opinion about my players, it doesn’t change the confidence I have in all of them." So after a 5-1 away win, we get destroyed 0-5. That reminds me of a little sequence of results in the final 3 matches of a season in Division Two. This is from memory, so I might not be 100% correct, but it went something like Fulham (h ) 4-0 w, Sunderland (a ) 0-5 L, Burnley (h ) 4-0 w. Hopefully that means we'll destroy Leicester on Sunday?
Or better tactics for the day. This was Liverpool's biggest win of the season and yet we are 7th - do all the teams below us have better players? I like Gracia but he got this one wrong.
All our deficiencies glaringly exposed: We lack a CB dominant enough in the air; Masina is rubbish; Hughes offers nothing; Pereyra is on the beach already; Deeney is too limited. We're still having a very good season, but it's been obvious for a while where we should aim to improve.
Good post. I'd just say I don't think Deeney's chance was more than a half chance. It needed a highly technical finish as when the ball arrived it was at speed, so taking a touch was probably out, and he was a few yards ahead of the near post, so would have had to angle it in towards goal in one movement. I think Liverpool or Man City would only put that in 1 or 2 times out of 10. I was disappointed with Deulofeu last night. He was busy but his decision making was lacking again. I knew he was going to do nothing as soon as he dived on the goal line in front of the Kop.
....if we have realistic plans to be a top 10 club. Not required if the Pozzo target is 40-45 points per season.
We're 8th though..... Correct. I think GT blooded Terry at Sunderland and then Jackett and Callaghan for the last one. Something like that. Terry was destroyed at sunderland !
It's always easy to criticise tactics after a bad result. There was a mix on shoutbox of those wanting to keep it tight and rely on the break and those wanting to give it a go given our extra rest and their recent and upcoming distractions rather than sit back and wait for the inevitable. By the time we were 3-0 down, everyone wanted us to have played a more defensive game. During the summer most were crying out for investment at the back and up front. Gracia has worked wonders with what he has TBF but that has raised expectations. Just look at the back 4 we played last night !
Allison - 15 goals conceded, 16 clean sheets Ederson - 20 conceded, 13 clean sheets De Gea - 36 conceded, 7 clean sheets Although it's not about that for you is it, it's more to do with being criticised for calling the team spineless despite it being only our second defeat of 2019. When you consider how many of those games have been away from home I think we've been far from spineless. Unfortunately you do like to be negative pretty much all the time so I guess it's expected
