Crystal Palace 1-2 Watford FC - 12/01/2019

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by Clive_ofthe_Kremlin, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    This sounds plausible, but I'd have to see a version of the 18/19 points progress chart, with a line showing how we'd fare if we'd won every game, to understand how it would have played out.

    You're also oversimplifying, because it doesn't account for goal difference. We might win every game 1-o, but that is not as good as winning some 9-0 and losing 1 in 3 1-0.

    Think about it.
     
  2. Otter

    Otter Gambling industry insider

    As long as you win the 6-pointers, that's all that matters.

    Think about it.
     
    HappyHornet24 likes this.
  3. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    I've just heard Kevin Day on H&J on my way home for lunch.
    I didn't hear from the beginning but I got the impression that he doesn't like Watford.
    "Watford play horrid football but they're above us" or something similar.
    Silly person.
     
  4. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    You're right of course. I'm hopelessly out of my depth.
    I have a feeling the points chart would look good if we won every game, but there's no way of knowing that without actually preparing the graph and I have neither the data nor the time.
     
  5. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    This is why the club employs professionals. Javi will have looked at the possible outcomes and will have targeted winning/losing/drawing according to what will give the best long term outcome
     
    The undeniable truth likes this.
  6. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    They all hate Watford on TalkSport, or appear to. Jacobs is openly a Watford hater. He has said that on many occasions. “Watford they’re rubbish” and “what is the point of Watford?” are a couple of comments that spring to mind.

    A lot of their pundits have it in for us too. Kevin Day is a Palace fan, but others have a similar view about us. Fatty Quinn slates us all the time.

    Gough still calls us Loanford. Durham is normally ok about us, but will stick the knife in when he feels like it. Brazil is similar.
     
  7. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    What is H&J? Is it what's on after Women's Hour and before the lunchtime news?
     
  8. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    "Loanford" lol. Stealing that. Ooh that tickled me. "Loanford"

    Because of all the loans and our town is named after a Ford.
     
  9. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Why on earth do you listen to Talksport ? It's utter ****.
     
    UEA_Hornet likes this.
  10. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    How can he have a go at us when palace have scored about 4 goals at home all season and Saturday we did it for them.
    For all the comments they are not bothered about us and there is no rivalry there is a lot of hate from comments on social media.
    Ex palace owner Simon Jordan likes us... He had a real rant about Silva's conduct recently.
     
  11. Guy

    Guy Squad Player

    Toby Gillies one of the producers I think is a Watford fan, Durham hates the stripey Nigel's and as for Mickey Quinn he hasnt forgiven us for laughing at the size of him when he came to us on loan
     
  12. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    Not near as bad as what Robbie Earle said yesterday before the Everton Bournemouth game and I quote;

    “Watford should never be 7th, there are three much bigger clubs than them that are all below them and that is Everton, West Ham and Newcastle (yes he actually said Newcastle). Those three should be battling it out for best of the rest. You’ve got Everton who have a very good manager, he just needs time, west ham are finding their feet and the only reason Newcastle aren’t up there is because of mismanagement.”

    I nearly punched my TV, then I realized it was worth more than Robbie Earle so I didn’t.
     
  13. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    This attitude is rife right across football. The elitist snobbery is everywhere.

    I really don't understand why this attitude is taken by 90% of pundits.

    It's like they all begrudge a smaller club doing well. Not sure why the big clubs have to be the successful ones and there's no room for anyone else to muscle in.

    I think it must be the illusion is shattered when a small, insignificant, tin pot, unfashionable (call it what you like) can sit 7th in the table. It destroys their ideology of how the football pyramid should be.

    Of course everyone is happy with the top 6. That area is in order and everything is how it should be, but just under that it freaks them out. How could Watford be better than about 30 other "superior" clubs? We should be where Bristol City are and be grateful for it.
     
  14. Robbie Earl as in played for Wimbledon? You’d think the turncoat would be all for the smaller club shaking the established order up. When did he sell out?
     
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  15. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    In a way I agree with Earle. I think the point he was trying to make was that the clubs he quoted have not managed their resources well enough in recent times to be above clubs like us, so he sees it as their failure rather than our success. They have similar income to us from TV but more from their bigger fan base, which should give them the edge. However it would be nice sometimes for the ‘experts’ to acknowledge that we are actually quite well run.
     
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  16. onion8837

    onion8837 Reservist

    Except that nobody in the media (TV at least) seems to grasp that having a big fan base / huge stadium no longer counts for very much. The revenues from Sky / BT dwarf the match day incomes of all clubs. It is now much more about how well run you are +/- external investment. The fact that Goodison holds 35k vs the Vic only holding 20k on most match days is a marginal difference in the scheme of things as they now are.

    That is why it is possible to have a Premier league containing us, Brighton, Burnley, Muff, Huddersfield, Fulham, etc.
     
  17. Chumlax

    Chumlax Squad Player

    What I do find amusing is the idea of judging how clubs should be doing in the present day based on their perceived 'size' historically. Past success is no guaranteed indicator of future success, and we only have to go and ask Forest fans, or Leeds, for two examples of that not being the case. The only indicator of how a club 'should' be doing is their current squad and ownership/organisation.

    As others have said, size in terms of seats in the stadium is meaningless, a relic of a factor, and yet you still have people bleating about Newcastle (for instance) saying how 'big' a club they are and what that should therefore get them. But they have been a basket case for 10 years, including being relegated twice in that time. Since they were last relegated they've been in the doldrums continously, thanks in part to their appalling ownership; they're not a 'big' club, they're an utterly average club with a proud history who attract proportionately large support, thanks in no small part to the fact that they are literally the only footballing entity in the largest city in their entire region. There's nothing surprising or out of step with their current status, and yet many pundits obsessively hold on to this as a metric. If this way of apportioning success through 'bigness' held up, then Huddersfield would be a big club thanks to their three successive first division league titles. What does it matter that it happened in the 20s? It's just as much in the past.
     
  18. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I think Robbie may have an issue with us considering a game against Watford ended his career in a pretty horrific way.
     
  19. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    What to people expect? The qualification bar for football journalism is set so low that having a massive gob and a mediocre career in football allows you to be quoted and listened to, like in no other section of the media.
     
  20. Markoa$

    Markoa$ Squad Player

    On a side note, why haven’t Watford posted the extended highlights yet? I’m assuming it’s because the chavs are still upset about getting ripped to shreds by us m, so won’t release the footage.
     
  21. Mollyboo

    Mollyboo First Year Pro

    Vote UKIP, innit. F'*** them elitist snobs.
     
  22. Beekayess

    Beekayess Reservist

    Still smiling after Saturday's game. I finally got to see a Watford win at that dump.

    Fantastic performance (especially in the 2nd half). In particular, I thought Troy & Gerard worked really hard.

    Great comment from the guy 2 seats from me when they changed their keeper - "Here comes the Third Reich".
     
  23. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Stadium size is only an indicator as to the potential of a club.

    My view a big stadium of around 40,000 is something that befits a club of Champions League potential. In England the clubs that have a stadium at this level are Man United, Man City, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool, Everton (after their rebuild), Arsenal, West Ham, Newcastle, Sunderland, Aston Villa, Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday.

    These are the biggest stadiums in the country. Big stadiums are for clubs with large followings and usually signify successfully clubs. However, in England it's a little unique. No other country really has the passion for the game as in England, certainly not in Europe.

    There are deprived inner city clubs that have large support, not because they are successful clubs, but because there's nothing else to do in the region. Newcastle and Sunderland clearly fit this description.

    Birmingham is the second biggest city in England, so makes sense there would be a large stadium in this area. Sheffield is another large city.

    Looking at the clubs I've listed, how many have ever been successful.....certainly in the past 40 years or so.

    * Everton had a little spell in the eighties. They last won a domestic cup in 1994 and have won the league 9 times, the last being in 1986.

    * West Ham last won a domestic cup in 1980 but never won the league.

    * Newcastle last won a domestic cup in 1955 and the old Division One 4 times, the last being in 1927.

    * Sunderland last won a domestic cup in 1973 and have won the league 6 times, but the last being in 1936.

    * Aston Villa have actually won the European Cup in 1982. They have won the league 7 times, but 6 of those were before 1911. The last one was in 1981 though.

    * Leeds have won the league 3 times, the last being in 1973. Their last domestic cup win was in 1972.

    * Sheffield Wednesday have won the league 4 times, but the last being in 1930. The last domestic cup win was 1991 winning the League Cup. The previous cup success before that was in 1935.

    You see, those "big" clubs are trading on ancient histories.

    Wigan, Portsmouth, Coventry City, Blackburn Rovers, Leicester City, Swansea City, Middlesbrough, L*ton, Fulham, Oxford United and Norwich City have all won major honours since any of these big clubs last lifted a trophy or won the league.

    Ok, Villa have won the League Cup a couple of times in the 90's and Sheffield Wednesday did win the League Cup in 1991, but that's no more of an achievement than any of the lesser clubs.

    If you've not won at least two domestic trophies in the past 30 years, then I don't you can have a claim on being a big club any more. They may have an ancient history and a big stadium, which is residue of that, but that's about it.
     
  24. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    I remember that - was in a Reserve game at the Vic.

    Was found to have a rupture spleen/bowel or something - probably wasn't caught by our local medics there at the time!

    I wonder how Leicester fans must feel being called a smaller club than Newcastle and West Ham (going by what he said) given they have won the title!?

    Looking at his Tweets after the game he wasn't happy then - or just going along with the general Palace reaction.

    https://twitter.com/kevinhunterday?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

    I notice now they are saying we were really quiet and hardly sung till we scored which is usually the allegation made against teams that beat another away from home.
     
  25. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Just head that Kevin Day stuff:

    About 20 minutes in...

    He must have missed Deeney being charged for his comments post Bournemouth game and I haven't seen any Palace fans really complain about the ref after the game so clearly he wasn't rubbish or in favour of us.

    https://talksport.com/radio/listen-again/1547470800/
     
  26. Jamie Luck

    Jamie Luck Academy Graduate

    Why are you so angry? I’ve read some comments on here for the first time in ages and it appears that you genuinely think Holebas and Hughes have had “appalling” or “horrendous” seasons, and that Gracia is continually making poor choices and didn’t warrant a new contract? Just baffling. Holebas has been one of our best performers this season. Hughes is probably the best young player at the club in my opinion, who wasn’t far away from an England call up; he’s proved an excellent signing and has fast become a fan favourite as a result.

    *I’ve just seem that you said Mount being selected over Hughes in October was “a joke” and then two months later Hughes has been “appalling all season”? Which is it? He’s had a few injuries and isn’t playing in his ideal position, but he’s a been a good, unselfish system player and still has plenty of room to grow. He will be a fantastic player. Be patient and supportive of him, like you were in October ;)*

    There has been nothing to moan about this season, and yet you’re still seemingly furious and hyperbolic in your statements. Calm down mate, it won’t get much better than this! I’m not having a go, just trying to understand what it is that causes such consistent downbeat comments, in spite of us massively overachieving.

    It never fails to amaze me how negative some people are. I don’t think a single player has been below a 6/7 out of 10 this season, and I’d give Gracia a 9, a potential 10 depending on the FA Cup and finish to the league campaign. He’s someone who fits our club perfectly. A brilliant coach who develops young players, an astute tactician and someone who is a process manager who thinks long-term. Plus, he’s a bloody nice bloke to boot. I can genuinely see him staying for years and that’s why the Pozzos have given him an unprecedented deal. What a season it’s been so far.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
  27. Glenhorn

    Glenhorn Academy Graduate

    Have I read this right or just completely misunderstood? You say it's better to win some games 9-0 And lose 1 in 3 1-0 ? I get the point about goal difference but surely winning every game is better overall than losing any ? That would make goal difference irrelevant. Maybe I too need to think about it..........
     
  28. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    I think you'll find the most important thing is fair play. Then it is corners.
     
  29. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    After Gole Differentials
     
  30. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    I also think we'd be doing better if playing in Red shorts?
     
  31. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    That comes into effect if tied in stadium capacity
     
  32. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    The guy is a comedian. I think a funny one, I’ve seen him before. Is obviously using hyperbole here.

    That we are getting up the nose of other teams is just because we are doing well. Let’s take it with good grace (not that you didn’t) they aren’t our rivals. They are the Watford of south London. Quirky ground, Little in the way of real success but still in the prem
     
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  33. NathWFC

    NathWFC First Team

    I'm not angry, hence why I've said being 7th at this point is fantastic.

    I have repeatedly said I rate Hughes as a footballer, and I do think he started the season well enough, but he isn't right a right winger and I stand by the fact that I believe he has been extremely poor there for the past few months - and I also hold Javi accountable for that and am far, far from the only person to have been vocal about it.

    Holebas is still an extremely mixed bag. He has had some very good games and has obviously provided some good assists, but he's still a hot head, still poor defensively often and despite his assists his dead balls are awful far more often than they are on the money.

    Maybe I shouldn't have anything negative to say at all considering our league position, but my frustration at times comes from the fact that we are potentially on the cusp of being able to do something special this season, and at times I believe poor managerial decisions and repeated poor performers have put that at risk.

    All in all I am very happy, but do I think Javi is the messiah and should never be criticised when he makes a balls up? No. Do I think players who are repeatedly poor should go ignored any more than those who are repeatedly performing well? No. Praise when and where it is due - which is more often than not this season and maybe more so than I give - but I believe that applies to criticism too.
     
  34. Keighley

    Keighley First Team

    Have you actually been to Newcastle? It’s no more “deprived” than any other city, certainly no more so than parts of Liverpool say.

    And no, of course there’s nothing else to do there. The glorious beaches and castles of Norrhumberland, one of Britain’s leading arts centres, decent shopping, excellent restaurants and pubs, two universities, the historic city of Durham just down the road, an efficient public transport system to get you out and about - nope, nothing to do. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2019
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  35. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    We're 7th, not much above 12th i admit. We're doing ok. We can't win every game with the bottom 14. In any 90 minutes we won't have 100% pass completion, won't win every 2nd ball, we'll probably miss a penalty one day and won't be faultless at the back. So you can either criticise as you say when we don't acheive perfection or realise it's not as bad as it could be and enjoy the good bits. Hughes has been very good and Holebas has been so good he's turned most peoples opinion around so much hes now a contender for POTY.
     

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