Arsenal 2-0 Watford FC - 29/09/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by domthehornet, Sep 27, 2018.

  1. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    ‘Expected goals’. Pah!
     
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  2. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Here is the transcript from Saturday's match. If you go to the extended highlights on the official site, you can see it's far more revealing and shows all of Watford's attacks, rather than the couple on MotD.

    I think our central defenders made a few uncharacteristic mistakes, which gave Arsenal a few more chances than their play probably deserved.

    4 min. Kabasele trips Lacazette with a clumsy tackle in the penalty area. On Wednesday Kabs was wrongly penalised for a good challenge on Alli. For this he gave away a penalty and was shown a red card. This time the challenge was mistimed and he did foul Lacazette. Even though the striker did not dive like Alli, Zaha or Knockaert he was put off balance and it should have been a penalty. For Anthony Taylor to have not given this, tells me I was actually wrong about him. He doesn't have a big club bias, he's just useless, which is far better. At least he's not a cheat.

    10 min. A great diagonal ball from Holebas finds Deeney inside the box. He is able to nod this back to an unmarked Hughes, who tries a first time shot which should have at least tested Cech and had it been on target probably would have been a goal, as Cech was rooted.

    14 min. A routine ball played to Cathcart was mis-controlled allowing Lacazette to rob him of possession and he was through 1 v 1. It was a simple chance, again totally of our own making. Maybe the chance was too easy as Lacazette tried a fancy chip over Foster, when either a low shot or just taking it around the keeper would have certainly resulted in a goal.

    35 min. Another good freekick from Holebas causes all sorts of problems in the Arsenal defence. There's a mad scramble, but the ball finally falls to Deeney who tries to stab it home but the keeper manages to smoother.

    38 min. An Arsenal low cross gets sliced cleared and falls to Xhaka on the edge of the box. He runs on to it and hits it first time, but Foster makes a decent save low to this left and parries it away to safety.

    51 min. The third quality freekick from Holebas, finds Deeney on the frontline totally unmarked. He gets a good side foot connection on the ball and diverts it to the keepers right, but Leno produces the save of the match to deny a certain goal.

    56 min. A high ball into the Arsenal box causes Leno all sorts of problems. He cannot deal with it and spills the ball. It falls to Pereyra, who probably should have chipped the ball back to an unguarded net, but instead turned back inside and played the ball across, but the opportunity was quickly wasted as it was easily intercepted by Arsenal and cleared.

    67 min. A superb through-ball finds Gray, but with only the keeper to beat he shoots straight at Leno. However, in Gray's defence he didn't have a lot of time to make up his mind and did all he could to score. Not a bad miss, but rather a good block from the keeper.

    69 min. An above and beyond chasing back by Gray wins the ball back for Watford, and from the counter-attack the ball is worked to Pereyra. He weaves his magic and tries one of his trademark right foot curlers into the top corner of the net, but this time he shoots a little too high. It's a good effort made out of nothing.

    71 min. A clever through-ball by Deeney picks out Success. Unfortunately the striker hesitates for a bit too long before shooting, which allows a covering defender to block the shot. Had he been more decisive, I'm sure he would have scored.

    73 min. The fourth excellent freekick by Holebas catches out the Arsenal yet again. Cathcart battles for it at the far post and it falls nicely for him. He's just fractions away from making a connection and hitting the ball under the keeper, but unfortunately he just couldn't reach far enough and Leno gratefully gathers.

    74 min. A wonderful through-ball, his third of the game, sets Success clean through. His first touch is heavy, but Leno elects to stay on his line. This allows Success to advance and chip the ball across goal and kissing the post as it agonisingly goes wide.

    80 min. Iwobi fires a low ball across the goal, where Cathcart was marking Lacazette. Unfortunately Cathcart got his angles all wrong and diverted the ball into his own net. Had he left it, it probably would have flashed harmlessly across the goal. It was a mistake rather than good Arsenal play that gives them the lead.

    81 min. A very good run by Pereyra, finds Doucoure on the edge of the box. He snatches at the ball and fires high over the bar, but we've all seen him he the ball sweetly from here, so it has to be considered an opportunity to have scored.

    82 min. A simple Arsenal move catches Watford out. Probably for the first time in the match Watford were caught out positionally and Ozil had the simple task of slotting home a routine low cross.

    87 min. Pereyra tries his luck with a long range shot, but this sails high over the bar.

    89 min. The highly impressive Holebas drives forward and chips in a delightful cross only for Doucoure to get a little underneath the ball and send his header over the bar.

    93 min. Lacazette tries a speculative shot, which goes wide.

    So you can see, Watford created so many good scoring chances. Far more than Arsenal. We rode our luck with a couple of early mistakes, but these chances only came about because of our mistakes, rather than any good build up play by Arsenal. All our chances were crafted by Watford, not by big Arsenal mistakes.

    If you total these scoring opportunities up. there are 12 chances where we could and probably should have scored a goal. Arsenal created just 6.

    Once you see it written down like this, considering it was Arsenal away, it was an incredibly good performance by Watford. How we lost by 2 clear goals has to go down as a bit of a fluke result. Most games where the pattern of play is like this, 9 times out of 10, the result would have been reversed.
     
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  3. kVA

    kVA Reservist

    Competition from your other log-ins will make this tough. I’d concentrate on a cup run.
     
  4. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I have to make an observation over an opposition player. Lacazette, what a class individual he is. Not only did he stay on his feet under Kabasele's challenge, which would have given his side an early penalty, the way he didn't celebrate Cathcart's own goal. He could have gloated or made out he scored it, but no, he actually seemed embarrassed for Cathcart.

    I knew he was a top player, but didn't realise what a sporting individual he was too. It's a shame that this is so rare in players, but I think when you see it, it's got to be recognised and praised.
     
  5. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    An interesting take on Ref Watch, with Dermot Gallagher. They actually looked at the Cathcart own goal and asked whether it was offside. Gallagher always tries to support the referee, but all he said about this was that it was difficult for the referee. So the fact he didn't support it, gives the impression he actually thought it was offside. Lacazette was clearly ahead of Cathcart, so technically it was offside and shouldn't have stood.

    With regards to the penalty, he said he didn't think it was a penalty, which I thought was strange. I thought, and many others thought, it should have been given. So according to Gallagher, the penalty decision was correct and he was noncommittal on the offside goal.
     
  6. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    What did Dermott sat about the pens at Everton and Huddersfield? Softer than Lacazette I thought but both players did swan dives and won pens.
     
  7. Sort of OK

    Sort of OK Reservist

    I was thinking of Success, being the Nigerian we brought on in the second half on Saturday. Despite being quite sure I googled him to double check he is Nigerian, he is but more importantly I didn't realise his full name is Issac Great Success Ajayi. His parents know how do dish out middles names.
     
  8. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    The only reason it may have not been a penalty is if Lacazette rode the challenge and there was no contact. Even then you could argue the challenge caused him to lose his footing. Would also explain maybe why he didnt go down. Certainly looks like he caught him though.

    As an aside I thought Deeney had a great game with almost all our chances involving him. Loves playing against the Arsenal but since his comments hasn’t had much luck, and a piss poor penalty last season doesn’t help.

    Good run of games coming up. Decent chance for a good haul of points but we all know how things in this division can go. Isn’t it about time we gave Bournemouth a real hiding?
     
  9. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Our "mini slump" in results has been a 4 game run with 3 of those matches against the traditional top 6. There has been elements of a couple of mistakes, missed chances, but a healthy dose of bad luck thrown in for good measure. This is the only reason we've not beaten Arsenal, Spurs (cup) and Fulham.

    As far as I'm concerned, we are playing just a well, if not better, than those first four games of the season.

    I fully expect Watford to beat Bournemouth, and if they play as well as they have been all season so far, there's no reason why we can't get back to winning ways.
     
  10. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    He did the same last week against Everton I think as it was asked if it could have been a penalty.

    Clearly not one to go down easily like so many.
     
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  11. folkestone orn

    folkestone orn Squad Player

    Rose deserves more of a reputation for this. He's done it a few times now.
     
  12. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    And a strong finish. A lot of chances in the last quarter.

    The radio commentary had us battering them until the 80th minute.

    Then my son & I excitedly jumped out of the car. By the time Jeff Stelling & Merry Men has sparked up, 2 down.

    Couldn’t believe it.
     
  13. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Excellent from Lacazette.

    Guilty about potential offside?
     
  14. King Dev

    King Dev Squad Player

    I saw this completely differently. Stared at Cathcart for a good 5 seconds or more, basically taunting him I thought. Not that anyone is really arsed but I wouldn't call it sporting.
     
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  15. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    They set the bar quite high.

    ‘Reasonable’ Success might have been kinder.
     
  16. luke_golden

    luke_golden Space Cadet

    I wasn’t able to watch the game, and I’ve just now seen the highlights. If they are anything to go by, it’s an absolute travesty that we’ve not got anything out of the game.
     
  17. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    If Brexit is cancelled, we’ll be playing in Europe next season.
     
  18. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    How I saw it too. After he'd done that, he definitely ran off and celebrated with his team mates.
     
  19. Ray Knight

    Ray Knight First Year Pro

    I am with Gallagher on the so-called penalty. There is no doubt that there is contact from Kabasele but it is minimal causing a stumble. To Lacazette's credit he tries to stay on his feet. If he had gone down he may have got a penalty but it was just as likely he would have been booked for diving as it would probably not look natural. Last week at Fulham I actually think the challenge on Hughes in the box was a penalty. However, there is some anticipation by Hughes as he expected to be clattered. Fine margins indeed, but it just goes to show that even with VAR some of these decisions are very difficult to call. My only conclusion is that we are all guilty of slamming into referees rather too much considering their real time often restricted view.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
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  20. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Agreed but, as I’ve said before, when VAR comes in any ‘contact’ will end up resulting in a penalty. All referee discretion on whether there was a dive as well will be gone.
     
  21. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    How so?
     
  22. Siohmy

    Siohmy Reservist

    I guess it’s all about interpretions. I’d argue he’s just pointing out it wasn’t his goal by looking at Cathcart. Also seems to give him a momentary arm on the shoulder. Didn’t appear gloating in any way. Also, of course he’s then going to celebrate. No matter how it came about they’ve just taken an arguably undeserved lead late into the game.

    PS. Not that this matters one little bit in the grand scale of things.
     
  23. CaveManHornet

    CaveManHornet Reservist

    LOL
     
  24. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I actually think it’s very sad and kinda depressing that we’ve got to an age where we are praising players (especially strikers) and saying what a great professional they must be for trying to stay on their feet. I know it’s a fairly draconian attitude to have in the modern game, but I’m still of the opinion that you should only be going down if you are brought down. It shouldn’t be your decision to go down as that’s a form of diving to me, contact or not.

    But I do agree that fouls/penalties should be awarded when a player is fouled and manages to stay on his feet or continue play. However, as a caveat to that, I don’t expect referees to be good at spotting such instances and that’s where VAR will come in - and I’m against VAR. Tricky!
     
  25. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I'm all for VAR, as it would go a long way in clearing up clear injustices. It's not perfect, and never will be, but we'll be getting far closer to an even playing field than ever before. Would VAR have overturned the penalty non-award to Arsenal, well no, and nor should it have. The referee decided to let play continue. It wasn't a clear and obvious wrong decision. This is where the grey area comes into play. It was the interpretation of the referee and VAR can never clear that up, unless it clearly shows the official he missed something at the time.

    With regards to Arsenal's first goal, then VAR would have disallowed it, as Lacezette was in a clear offside position.

    Going on to a slightly different subject. Did anyone see the disallowed Cardiff goal at the weekend? It was because the striker held down the defender. Now, I've seen this type of thing common place recently and all the goals or attempts have stood. Mitrovic's two headers over the bar against us, when he used our own defenders as leverage. Fellani's goal against Derby in the cup, he was clearly all over the back of the defender, pinning him down, but the goal stood.

    It's a strange one, where referees are being really inconsistent with this. There were also two penalty decisions over the weekend, both close range handball, one given, one not. Different referees, different matches, but the same incident getting two different verdicts.

    Rules that are open to interpretation have to be defined more clearly. If you are offside, you are offside, if a striker holds down a defender while jumping it's a foul. If it's handball it's a penalty no matter what, etc.
     
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  26. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    As a centre half I was often pulled up for using the striker as leverage when i jumped. I agree, any header where the forward has his hands on the shoulder or back of a defender should be a foul.
     
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  27. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Can’t agree more with your last paragraph and I’ve been saying it for years. People can criticise referees every week but the rules are over-complicated which ties one hand behind their backs.
     
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  28. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The one that gets me is that if the ball is in the air 40 yards from goal, and the only players contesting it are a CB and a striker, if the striker chooses not to jump or show much effort, 9/10 the CB will be punished for going through the back of the striker. Now bring play back 30 yards, do the exact same scenario but with a few other attackers and defenders stood around them and the decision will be the exact opposite and the striker will be penalised for backing into the defender. It’s exactly the same thing. Fouls are fouls wherever they are but referees seem to define them to where they are on the pitch.
     
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  29. Lacazette - ref would not have blown if outside box.
     
  30. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    If the people in the box watching VAR had decided there was a case to answer - still relies on them to ask the officials to look at a decision I think in situations like that.
     
  31. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Tricky area. If there is contact and the striker stays on his feet why should a penalty be given? Goes back to all the useless "experts" stating "there was contact" to justify a penalty. If it's minor contact and the guy stays on his feet it's not a penalty. The contact has to be enough to knock him over or otherwise seriously impede him. The difficulty is whether the contact was enough to cause the striker to fall or whether there was contact and the player used that as an excuse to fall. Very difficult for a referee to distinguish.
     
  32. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    The thing I find strange. Very strange in fact - is the way that referee’s are continually conned by the theatrical antics of the attacking player. It is obvious when a player actually goes down by force or when it’s done by choice. I really don’t know why ref’s still fall for it, and as much as I don’t like attacking officials as I think their job is next to impossible these days, it does somewhat back up HB1’s claims that a number of them do it for the attention and to further their ‘celebrity’ status in the game.
     
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  33. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    I think any penalty incident where player puts arms in air before going down should be automatically yellow card for simulation.
     
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  34. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    I’m not a physicist but is the forward more likely to fall if he is wearing a striped shirt, especially red with black or red with blue?

    If so, this year’s shirt is presumably Gino’s first, fumbling effort to exploit this opportunity.

    Small margins etc.
     
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  35. Forzainglese

    Forzainglese Reservist

    I don't see how this can be the conclusion. VAR enables the referee to see re-runs and so make more considered judgements. It does not make any conclusions itself. I cannot understand how people make such a simple thing complicated.
     

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