Marco Silva Tapping Up Complaint

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by wfcSinatra, May 15, 2018.

  1. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    It adds to the overall picture indicating that Everton think they can do whatever they like. The Premier League has to impose a punishment as it will reflect badly on them as an organisation if they allow one of its members to flout the rules so blatantly.

    Hopefully this is the tip of the iceberg and a lot more will be uncovered. If they've done this to us, with another example back in 2016, you can bet this is their standard practise and have done this type of thing many times already.

    This will go on for a long time I suspect, so if nothing else it will be bad press for Everton and could be very unsettling.
     
  2. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    It seems to me that the main point of the independent enquiry is to decide what the material consequences were of the approach and to impose sanctions if those consequences were severe. For Everton the real punishment will be the loss of reputation, and possibly for Silva the loss of compensation for the termination of his Watford contract.
     
  3. Gotta love that our insistence on pursuing this matter may inevitably lead to unsettling Silva and Everton's season this year no matter what the outcome!

    Crack on Gino.
     
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  4. The Voice of Reason

    The Voice of Reason First Team Captain

    Going after Harry was the final straw :D
     
  5. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Everton fans lack of self awareness is the most interesting thing at the moment, sorry - in this moment.

    Ranges from laughing it off as not happening to the self victim portrait where the FA will make an example of them and nobody else.

    And its Watford who are being d****s.
     
  6. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Of course, and it's the reaction of the uneducated. They want to stand up for their club, right or wrong. Had it been the other way around they would be seeing this completely differently of course.

    Everton are the only club being investigated here, so clearly there is something they have to answer. Fans are going to be very concerned, no matter what they say. No supporter wants to uncertainly of a points deduction hanging over them.

    It could well derail them, which would be poetic justice.

    Already I'm seeing the cracks. Richarlison suspension and Everton do not beat Huddersfield at home. If they lose to West Ham at home on Sunday, then there will be real discontent growing. All their injuries. Is it coincidence we also had a dreadful injury record under Silva last season, now it's all cleared up, but Everton are having the exact same problem this season?

    From the outside, it looks like the touch-paper has been lit, now sit back and watch it all explode.
     
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  7. dal8oy138

    dal8oy138 Academy Graduate

    Having read through some comments on their forum I agree with the above, having said that there are a few of their more educated fans that can see through the blue mist for this really is. One thing I don know and that is that our 2 games against them this season should be absolutely electric with atmosphere. We need to give that w@n**r manager of theirs hell when he comes to the Vic. Lets just hope we beat them too!
     
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  8. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    Based on this forum, I had ‘Andre Gray’.
     
  9. Levon

    Levon Squad Player

    To be fair, a lot of them seem to have moved on from “nothing will happen” to “Watford are petty for complaining to the PL”. One of them even said that we’re catching up with Liverpool as that individual’s most-hated club. That doesn’t happen when it’s a situation you can shrug off.
     
  10. RookeryDad

    RookeryDad Squad Player

    But, remember, nor can Deulofeu.
     
  11. I think this is actually the other way around. It is, if I understand it correctly, an investigation into whether or not a rule was broken rather than damage done, considering the consequences only as evidence rather than damages.

    That would make it a Premier League equivalent to a "criminal" case, where the administering organisation will judge the actions and motives of the accused party in deciding guilt, rather than the effects of those actions. The investigation seeks only to decide what administrative punishment, if any, is to be taken. This may be a points deduction or fine, it may even include some instruction to recompense Watford, but only after consideration of the effects subsequent to judgement.

    However, if it is established that Everton did break a "law", they will then be open to a "civil" case which would be concerned entirely with the material concequences. At that point though, if we even push the matter, I imagine Everton will look to settle out of court as the whole thing is likely to get very expensive for them.

    OJ Simpson, famously, was found not guilty in a criminal court of murdering his wife, but in a subsequent civil court action he was reasonably considered to be responsible for her death. He therefore received no official punishment for the murder, but was successfully sued by his wife's family for the material effect of that murder.

    The point is that breaking a rule or law has its own punishment, and that is what is being considered now. The material matters will wait on the outcome and Gino's inclination, assuming Everton are guilty.
     
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  12. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I don't think the distinction you've drawn is quite right.

    As I understand it, the Premier League has commissioned a law firm to carry out an investigation on its behalf into Everton's conduct, as alleged by Watford. If that investigation identifies something to justify it, Everton will be charged with whatever rule breach applies and an independent disciplinary commission will be convened to hear the charge and determine guilt. They will call witnesses and examine the evidence from the investigation and Everton's defence. If the commission panel find Everton guilty they'll be liable for whatever punishment best fits the rules. That could include compensation running into tens of millions if Watford asked for it and the commission felt it was justified, as well as any competitive punishment (points deductions, fines etc).

    So long as the process was carried out fairly and legally I see little reason for the courts to be involved.
     
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  13. Levon

    Levon Squad Player

    I don’t think this will wind up in court, especially not if the Premier League find Everton guilty. Whatever Watford would normally seek in court will probably be encompassed in the internal case.

    Meanwhile, Everton fans seem to be of the persuasion that it is all Watford’s fault there’s an investigation, and presumably it will be all Watford’s fault if they are found guilty and fined. It’s like an episode of Scooby Doo; “I would have gotten away with it if...”
     
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  14. PowerJugs

    PowerJugs Doyley Fanatic

    This how I've seen this since we rejected the compensation packages and our actions thereafter. What is interesting was that we were content with nor pursuing this further until Everton appointed him, after mediation had lead to an agreement of us leaving it be if they didn't appoint him in the future, so this situation was entirely avoidable by Everton afterwards.
     
  15. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    These things are always long drawn out. If Everton are found guilty I suspect sanctions would only be imposed next season. Everton appointing Silva only strengthens Watford's case in this matter.
     
  16. Ybotcoombes

    Ybotcoombes Justworkedouthowtochange

    Look at Vardy, he was only called up to England because of the weight of pressure from media and public , don’t think he would have ever had a shot if they hadn’t had that season
     
  17. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    Pesky Hornets!
     
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  18. I think we are in complete agreement then. You may want to read my post again.
     
  19. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I'd be happy to, but I struggled to work out what you were getting at with the distinction between 'criminal' and 'civil'. If your post meant the same as mine then happy days!
     
  20. I agree.

    It is always preferable not to trouble the courts with a civil issue, and all parties are expected to do what they can before going that far. If Everton are found guilty of a rule breach, and Watford received unfair damages because of it, the court would wonder why they are being referred to, when the case is as open and shut. I can't see Everton wanting it to go so far, because the only benefit they may get would be limiting the compensation, which, given that they themselves, apparently, offered in the region of 10m for him at the time, is likely to be high based solely on their own actions at the time.
     
  21. Thought that was clear. A rule breaking offence is equivalent, in PL terms, to a criminal case. It is investigating the rule breach, not the damages. As I said, and as you described, AFTER the judgement the PL may consider a compensatory order on Everton.

    I'd say you are just confused because you have particular words you think ought to be used to describe the scenario, whilst I am only concerned with the meaning of what is being said.

    We are in complete agreement, except you don't agree that we are agreeing for some reason.

    I'm guessing you are having a very happy day.
     
  22. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Have you ever had any legal training?
     
  23. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Oh I see. In which case, we're not agreeing.
     
  24. Nope. But I have successfully represented myself against professionals who had.

    Did you ever have potty training?
     
  25. If you could point out where we are not agreeing, rather than just saying you don't agree, I'd appreciate it...

    I'm open to a discussion if you can get over the gain saying.
     
  26. Steve Leo Beleck

    Steve Leo Beleck Squad Player

    Thought as much.
     
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  27. Gave you an honest answer though mate.

    So. Did you ever have potty training?
     
  28. Thought as much.
     
  29. wingco

    wingco Reservist

    Need to hurry up before they sack him
     
  30. onion8837

    onion8837 Reservist

    And now they are 2 down at home to bottom club. And the natives are getting restless :D
     
  31. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    Moshiri is calling Gino as we speak, offering a manager swap deal.
     
  32. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Silva to us in return for the manager of the Lower GT catering kiosks?
     
  33. onion8837

    onion8837 Reservist

    But apparently we know that “a shirt pull is a yellow card straight away”. Unless it is Mike Dean refereeing.
     
  34. Loyalhornet

    Loyalhornet Reservist

    So poetic to see that despondent look on Silvas face. I hope we see a lot more of that !
     
  35. IRB

    IRB THe artist formally know as ImRonBurgundy?

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