Marco Silva Tapping Up Complaint

Discussion in 'The Hornets' Nest - Watford Chat' started by wfcSinatra, May 15, 2018.

  1. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Surely it's just one of the oldest PR rules in the book - if you can't truthfully say anything to improve your image, say nothing at all.
     
  2. hornetgags

    hornetgags McMuff's lovechild

    And Richarlison can't play against his parent club.
     
  3. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    Still think that would be disproportionate based on the last 10-15 years worth of disciplinary outcomes and there's no precedent at all for it. That's why it would be so surprising if it occurred
     
  4. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    I would be surprised as well.
    What would be a proportionate penalty? I don't think a fine even in the 10s of Millions as being a true deterrant given the money involved nowadays and its likely to be much less.
    If the fine is less than the 10 Million was it? Moshiri was willing to pay. THAT sets a precedent telling clubs its okay to act this way as long as you offer to pay enough. It gives a green light to his behaviour.

    Touchline ban for Silva for 10 games?
    Ban him and Moshiri from contact with the club or players for 10 games.
    Silva placed in stocks on Watford highstreet? Happy Egg will I am sure provide some free produce.
     
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    You’d have expected some sort of denial though surely? It’s a pretty serious accusation and if it’s unfounded then you’d be saying so at the earliest opportunity. And probably pursuing a slander case.

    I still think it’s rather telling that Everton have said nothing.
     
  6. hornetgags

    hornetgags McMuff's lovechild

    I can see it being a suspended point deduction. If they're caught doing it again, then it's applied.
     
  7. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Youre probably right. So eff all.
    Id still like a ban for Silva for a few games and the stocks idea
     
  8. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    I genuinely don't know

    I guess if the evidence is as damning as the Ashley Cole episode was, you look at that and then apply some kind of footballing interest multiplier to the fine. It's a difficult one to answer.

    Points deductions are extremely rare and generally only happen for financial reasons these days

    Complete list of points deduction incidents in English football here:

    http://www.footballsite.co.uk/Statistics/Articles/DidYouKnow29.htm
     
  9. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    When are we playing Everton at home?
     
  10. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    February - I've already booked the hotel :)
     
  11. hornetgags

    hornetgags McMuff's lovechild

    Well it's an indictment, so everyone would know they were guilty and they'd have to keep their powder dry.

    IMHO, Gino's looking for vindication and that would provide it.
     
  12. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    My favourite bit of that article comes about half way down hahahahahah
     
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  13. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    It depends on how much hard evidence they can obtain. If it's an "open and shut case" then I think Everton could well have a points deduction. However, these things are usually hard to prove 100%. I hear that the EPL will ask for the owner's phone etc, but he's going to have more than one phone I suspect and he's hardly going to hand something over that incriminates him.

    It will boil down to something like, there's a strong indication that foul play has occurred, but we cannot 100% prove it, so the benefit of the doubt will go to Everton. If it was a sting operation then I believe Everton would not have a leg to stand on, but it's always hard bringing evidence to the table.
     
  14. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    I did a double-take when I got to that bit. I clearly wasn't paying attention at the time as my instant reaction was "that can't be right, surely?"
     
  15. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I think it's a longer term strategy. This is a warning to shot to any other club looking to illegally approach one of our players or coaches in the future. Watford will react strongly and are not a soft touch.
     
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  16. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    Yes. I suspect that the authorities have to be seen to be considering a really serious outcome to keep us and the rest of football happy but then they will conclude with a severe telling off and suspended points deduction as long as they promise not to do it again...
     
  17. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    Okay so the result of the forum jury is:
    A suspended points deduction and an apology we have been naughty and wont do it again from Everton?
     
  18. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    Genuine question - how many of Watford's transfers over the last year or two do you think were undertaken without technically breaching the rules?

    Are we really saying that it's a suspended points deduction until Everton break the rules again but only where they break them enough to annoy someone? It's a daft state of affairs. Either have the rules, or don't have them. At the moment we have rules which are flagrantly ignored by everyone and are only enforced when someone gets annoyed. I'm not meaning to belittle this incident, but it effectively shines a light on what a farce the situation we find ourselves in has become.
     
  19. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    NO!
    "Burn the witch!"
     
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  20. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Nothing will happen to Silva. If he breached his contract by talking to Everton, then its for Watford to pursue him independently about that. We may well do if that is proven in the investigation. The PL may well sanction his agent if possible but not sure they have jurisdiction over him as the article says. Any sort of ban for Moshiri is pointless as Toffeeblue9 has pointed out before - Moshiri has people doing the work on his behalf. I’m sure Everton’s actions will have been followed through by other employees working under his instruction. It would be amazingly careless of him to have got his own hands dirty in the matter. I’d be surprised if any individuals are found guilty. It will be the club as a whole and that’s the only way of applying guilt to Moshiri over the issue.

    As for a points deduction not happening or being harsh due to there being no precedent - perhaps. But you don’t hold of punishing someone in a certain manner just because no one has done it before. If that’s what the PL deem as a punishment that fits the crime, that’s what they should do. And that would hopefully act as a deterrent and as precedence in any future matters.

    The PL need to be careful here. If they find Everton are guilty, I think they have to hit them hard. Because any weak punishment throws open the doors for clubs to act as they please knowing full well the punishment is worth taking. There’s far too much wealth at the top of the game to just hit clubs with relatively small fines.
     
  21. None really - but if you think that you know otherwise, please do tell.
     
  22. Heidar

    Heidar Squad Player

    The best "**** you" we can give would be to finish above Everton in the league
     
  23. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    I'm actually personally aware of one illegal approach that Watford made many years before the Pozzo era, but that's a story for another day.

    The point being - we know that everyone breaks the rules. What this incident has done is highlight that it's not ok to break the rules when you annoy someone by doing it, which just seems daft.
     
  24. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    There is a difference between approaching a player and a coach/manager though
     
  25. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    Actually, despite what I said about Moshiri and his general lack of involvement in the day-to-day issues at the club, it is believed that he was personally involved in the Silva pursuit as Silva was his own first choice. We shall see if this turns out to be true or not
     
  26. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    As far as the rules are concerned, there isn't.
     
  27. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Here’s a question for you - Do you think tapping up a player over a transfer and tapping up a manager should be seen as the same ‘crime’ so therefore the punishments when found guilty should be the same?
     
  28. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    Good question. The honest answer is that I don't know. I do know that as far as the current rules are concerned, there's no real difference. Whether that's right or wrong in the real world, I haven't quite made my mind up.
     
  29. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    May be the same as in the rules.
    But its not the same in reality.

    If someone had tapped up an individual player. No matter how important and that player had downed tools. Even a player as important as say Zaha at Palace you can drop them it has some impact on performance and team morale. Plus you can always drop the player, maybe the player replacing them isn't quite as good. But you cant drop a manager.
    If the manager downs tools you end up with a significant run of loses which is MUCH more significant and that is what we are talking about
     
  30. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I agree and that’s what I’ve said all along.

    The crux of all of this is whether the PL see the difference and act accordingly.

    I think they should. But won’t.
     
  31. toffeeblue9

    toffeeblue9 First Year Pro

    You'd be asking them to make their own rules up though. If they are going to treat the two differently, surely that has to be in black and white? You can't make it up as you go along.
     
  32. Levon

    Levon Squad Player

    I appreciate the reference to a more obscure Elton track!
     
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  33. Cthulhu

    Cthulhu Keyboard Warrior Staff Member

    If youd had come after Richy and not silva in the same way. We probably wouldn't be where we are though. We probably wouldn't have pushed so far and would have just taken an enhanced fee (maybe)
     
  34. Levon

    Levon Squad Player

  35. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

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