All fair points. What I would say as regards to Hughes/Chalobah/Richarlison is that I just don't see the difference there in what other clubs are doing also. I don't see how that can be explained as being part of a unique model? So my point is that when we talk about buying players for the 1st team, why do we always talk about the model when it doenst really have any difference to what other clubs our size are doing? I get that it is unique in what it does in terms of scouting and placing players to develop elsewhere but we haven't seen the benefit of that...not yet at least. I'm not critical of that side of things - I just think when we are discussing improving the squad in this window, any reference of the 'Pozzo Model' is a moot point.
It's pretty clear what the targets are or have been. We wanted an expensive striker, but under £20m - Defrel, Fran Sol, Said, Dzyuba or Paco. We may even now want a striker and a winger. We wanted De Souza as a ready to go MF able to slot right in. About £15m We wanted centre back and would have paid a fee, for instance for Toloi, but would probably prefer to pay big wages for a free like Reyes. We want another keeper Rico or that Uruguayan bloke and are prepared to pay about £15m There is no indication that we would not sign these targets if they wanted to come and wages were within some sort of sanity. We do appear to have bid for Paco, Rico and De Souza. But if we can't get players who improve the squad within our means (and there are limits) then we'll have to get on with it.
As a 'model' it certainly isn't a rigid orthodoxy. It went right out of the window when we signed Diamante.
I think it is (b) as well which is fair enough and would have my acceptance in this crazy market. If it is (a) then it is moronic.
- Zeegelaar - Oulare - Sinclair - Dja Djedje - Okaka - Jurado - Nyom - Berghuis - Amrabat - Mario Suarez - Pantillimon - Zarate - Kaboul - Success (although he may still come good) All massive flops that brought effectively absolutely nothing to our team but have cost us in transfer fees and wages, some of them fairly substantially. There are also others you could make a case for.
Correct me if I’m wrong, aside from Gray when the Pozzos have actually spent relatively big money it’s generally worked out ok? Maybe the only other exception is Success but he could still come good, not to mention the fee was just a way of moving money around the clubs anyway. It’s the Zeelegars that are the biggest issue, but then Prodl and Kiko were free and worked out to be pretty good signings overall. I think when they spend upwards of £5-£10m it’s generally a success and when they spend sub £5m about 1 in 5 works out ok. Those are not bad odds. To me the Pozzo model is simply looking for good value, aka Gerry and Bobby P, or rough diamonds like Richy and Doucoure. They then take regular punts on players like Zellegar, who more often than not don’t work out but if they don’t it’s not the end of the world and every now and then it works enough to make it just about worthwhile. We are never going to do a West Ham or Everton unless we are sold to a billionaire, Gino is never going to risk our financial future. Assuming they’re in it for the long haul if we actually do get relegated I’d say we’d easily be best placed to handle it over any other club.
I disagree when it comes to defenders. Our centre back stock is bottom 3 if not outright worst in the division. They are hardly at FIFA 78 level! We could easily improve with one or two signings totalling £20 million. The Pozzos have shown time and again they simply aren't interested in investing significant sums in the defence because there is less upside in player appreciation. As a result we get the absurd Britos contract extension and long term deal for Prodl.
This is my point. Speculating on a young player who could come good, a Hughes, Chalobah, even a Sinclair - I get that. Low risk potentially high reward Buying ****** journeyman in their 30s and signing them to long contracts, in the hope that you can get a loan fee for them - high risk, low reward, especially when these players offer nothing unique to us or a potential loan club. Buying players and loaning them straight out to other European sides before selling them - completely unhelpful to Watford fc and purely in the interests of the owners Not buying players who are desperately needed for key positions - extremely damaging for a club in the premier league and could lead to relegation Complete failure to address a cancerous injury crisis over 36 months which has seen dozens of players injured for longer than is reasonable - criminal level negligence On the last point there is something still evidently wrong at a fundamental level. Either our barber surgeon medical team or the training regime that the Pozzos insist on instilling. Either way the fact that we approach the new season with arguably our 4 best players in various stages of injury is enough for me. There's something desperately wrong with our training or recovery and the fact that it's apparently not been fixed means that the fault now rests at the top of the chain.
The difference between us doing well and going down is not going to be a lot. Wolves and Fulham are well resourced additions to League. Of the weaker teams like Huddersfield and Cardiff they are all competitive. If we can put out our best 11 most weeks we'd probably do quite well, but survival is always going to be hard fought. We won't sign players that will ever take pre-season anxiety (PSA) away.
Disappointing transfer window so far .Richarlison was always going to leave. Another season from him would have been interesting. He is brave, quick, good in the air and can shoot left & right. Yet, Phil Vickery stated on his South American football show about Richarlison, his final ball and decision making has always been poor. He is young, so time will tell. I think we will struggle again this season. I hope not but it does not look good.
Kabasele is an excellent defender and Cathcart is nailed on P League good enough. Prodl was our player of the year not long ago. Clearly we are in the market for a centre back, but one decent one would do it. The owners seem to get that. I agree that time may be running out on the others, bar Wilmot, but Mariappa can still make the squad and it's one of Kaboul or Britos to keep the medics happy.
For anybody panicking Peyreya signed on my birthday (August 19th) and that’s still three weeks away. That was a massive coup for as at the time and three weeks beforehand none of us knew about it. There is still time for a couple more surprises.
Disagree on Prodl, but I agree Kabasele and Cathcart are good enough. However, both have had numerous injuries the last 2 seasons, so then we are fielding Mariappa and Prodl. I'm assuming Kaboul isn't fit for purpose as always. Prodl/Marriapa wouldn't be a strong pairing in the championship.
Look at it from the positive point of view. Richy was actually a passenger for the latter part of the season. A bit like Ighalo before he went he was actually taking up a valuable spot in the team rather than adding to it. Without knowing how he would’ve performed this season we are not actually losing anything but rather gaining something in that another player can take his spot and possibly actually add to our performances rather than take away from them.
I think somebody else mentioned why don’t we just go out and buy 1 or 2 players for big money rather than the current approach but if we ended up like Southampton with two complete duds we would have an issue. What the Pozzos do differently is they look at areas in the world where other clubs maybe don’t as this seems to be where the value is. I will admit I don’t understand the deal we have with the agent who gave us Oulare and others though. I have no issue with people criticising the owners because they do get things wrong but blimey they’ve got a lot right. You can never tell if Moog is being serious but if he is there are some strange comments that he has made.
Sorry, but only a few of those were 'massive flops', Suarez or Dja Djedge for example. Many of those are still young and many others we got games out of and most of our money back. It is sometimes hard to see a method though, despite the much vaunted 'model' for someone like Dja Djedge - like why?
I know that, the point was simply that the owners have surprised us before and although we don’t have three weeks we have just under two weeks left for something similar to happen.
I think Cathcart is good enough as a back-up, as is Prodl. I don't think Cathcart is good enough to be a regular and there were quite a few lapses at the back end of last season to back this up. He's not positionally good enough to play every week. We have let in an alarming amount of avoidable goals in the past 2 seasons and we have lamented our defence. The full-backs haven't helped but they are all culpable. Even when Prodl won POTS, we still looked poor at the back. Kabasele can be an excellent CB I believe if he has someone of real quality next to him. Someone he can build a partnership with.
Absolute rubbish. We do not have a relegation standard squad even now, let alone when the season starts after the transfer window.
I did sometimes wince when Mariappa was endlessly first choice centre back last year and I like him as a player. In those little video questionnaires the club puts out most of the other players rated him as the best trainer and most professional. First rate utility player and my first choice to bring on with 10 minutes to go defending a 4-0 lead.
The summer transfer window is also a case of musical chairs. The best time for the owners to do business is right at the last minute when clubs and players have no choice to make decisions because they might have too many players in their squads. I reckon we’ll have a couple of last minute surprises.
I imagine every club is the same. Some transfers will be good, some won’t. At least most of those were not that expensive and not all flops, more your own opinion.
I’d be amazed if the vast majority of those actually cost us any money in the long run. I know that in itself doesn’t directly help us as a team but indirectly it does. A lot of those have been loaned out and the loan fees would’ve eventually covered any inital outlay in most cases.
I don't believe we do. We have strengthened in that area with 3 recruits. I accept we need an upgrade CB if there is one available within budget but we will be tighter this year anyway, similar to Flores first season. We will not be playing the Silva way where we didn't care how many the opposition scored, there will be much more tighter games under Gracia
Oh, I just realised, he pereyra but was a red herring. You just wanted to announce your forthcoming birthday.
I don't know if I'm serious to be fair. I often start out making inflammatory posts just to start debate and then end up convincing myself. I'm presuming that's how most leading brexiters must've started.
