Manchester Utd 1-0 Watford - 13/05/2018

Discussion in 'Match Day' started by SkylaRose, May 9, 2018.

  1. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    I would say whoever the manager is we'd do well to get points at Arsenal, Liverpool , Spurs and Man U..yes I know we have beaten the Gooners twice in recent years.

    The Huddersfield and West Ham performances were pretty disappointing though.

    Generally we have done well at home for most of the games but suffered from lapses in concentration etc.
     
  2. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    First time I'd been to Old Trafford, (which now makes it one more time than my Man U supporting brother in law), and I was quite surprised how good the view was, (much better than the London Stadium). Thought we were pretty good today, apart from the goal Gomes had nothing to do at all, whereas with a little better finishing we'd have taken the 3 points. I know we slate the forwards every week but in 90 minutes our wingers got a grand total of 1 cross in from open play, f***ing pathetic.
    Loved seeing Chalobah come on to the pitch, what a moment.
    Train back to Euston had more Man U fans on than Watford, says it all really. However, all the mancs we chatted to on the tram back to town were a decent bunch. One manc asked a bloke with a Watford top on if he was alright for directions to the London train, he said "no worries mate, I'll follow the red shirts".
     
  3. Happy bunny

    Happy bunny Cheered up a bit

    I don't want a mid-season change. I'd like the team to be run by the guy who had some input into the summer recruitment, and players bought with the head coach's preferred playing style in mind. Whether that's Gracia or not, I'm undecided
     
  4. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    Well said. I know what side of the debate I’m on but regardless, what I want most is total investment one way or the other. We’ve done okay so far by going off like a rocket (for a club our size) and then limping over the line. I dare say if we swapped that around, we’d go down. Next season feels like the most dangerous to me.
     
  5. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    It’s also beginning to look like we should really put that Chelsea game in context - they’ve utterly chucked this season since Christmas.
     
  6. SkylaRose

    SkylaRose Administrator Staff Member

    So many posts to read so I’ll read in the morning. Il make this brief.

    Thanks so much to two very special sets of fans today. Everyone in the shoutbox today and on the forum, and everyone who travelled today and rightly applauded the performance.

    Yes it was an awful game from Man Itd as they sat back and held on but I cannot fault the effort today. Rich should of scored and Delefoo had a great shot saved but he was below par today.

    Utd were awful and there for the taking but it shows in heaps all over the mid season to now we cannot take chances. Not many teams go to Old Trafford and create chances like we did. For that alone, well done to the lads.

    Yes it was a weakened as expected Utd team but almost beating them must of lifted sone confidence.

    Rightly Ashley Young getting booed at the start of the game for his antics at Vicarage Road earlier in the season and I’m glad the most vocal of the support sounded like the hornets.

    Congratulations to Gomes for making it 100 games for the club and a special day for him I’m sure. Shame when Deeney came on we lacked any attaching threat but when they have ten behind the ball it’s never easy.

    I only heard the match on 3cR so cannot comment on wether or not the goal should of stood but we certainly played our part today in one of the better away performances.

    Holebas... just go please - truly awful again today.

    Next season, will it be different or the same? Will Gracia stay is unknown but it’s never dull being a Hornet.
     
  7. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    I thought the midfield below par, Hughes in particular had one of his least effective games. Delofeu also ineffective. I thought the defence was ok, albeit against a lack lustre Man U. Hopefully Kabasele only a knock after failing to scale the fence having fallen into the trench. Odd end to the game. For once Deeney and Gomes did not take centre stage with the players coming over to the away fans. Decoure waved goodbye. On Gracia, I am not convinced, but the worst performances this year I would say were Swansea and Huddersfield at home, and he can't be blamed for those.
     
  8. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    I take no confidence from ‘almost beating a weakened United who were awful and there for the taking’. I love the sentiment of your post but sadly it’s indicative of a comfort zone that would see us relegated next season.
     
    hjw likes this.
  9. Burnsy

    Burnsy First Team

    You obviously didn’t go to Huddersfield or Liverpool away. Or West Ham. He can be blamed for all 3 of those.
     
    hjw likes this.
  10. Hornpete

    Hornpete Squad Player

    Gracia inherited a squad that defended like a sieve. We have done much better defending home and away.

    The tactic is to keep it tight and concentrate at the back whilst trying to create one or two chances of our own.

    The reason it's failed under gracia is the porous defence still have the odd individual error in them and our forwards are toothless, utterly toothless. Deeney cant even take a penalty these days, Gray has no confidence and Richarlison is having a stinker that had lasted months.

    We could have gone 2 up front away from home and thrown caution to the wind, but i think this would only have resulted in continuing to leave the defence wide open, so we may have scored a few, but we'd have conceded a hat full, so in retrospect gracia has got it right to a degree away from home. I don't think it would take much to turn this no goals away form into a few 1 or 2 goal wins/draws in future, which if combined with our home form would be very good.

    One example is the tottenham game, couple of silly defensive errors and missed one or two chances. Clearly we could have had a point if karnezis doesn't fumble and we take one chance the other end.
     
  11. PhilippineOrn

    PhilippineOrn First Team

    Notorious 'Fourth Season Syndrome'.
     
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  12. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    Exactly. We should be beating the likes of Man Utd away. Those are the bread and butter points that keep a team in the division...
     
  13. Maninblack

    Maninblack Reservist

    Booed for what, scoring two great goals against us and celebrating them?! Some people have short memories!
     
    WillisWasTheWorst and UEA_Hornet like this.
  14. wfc4ever

    wfc4ever Administrator Staff Member

    Did the old hand behind the ears thing which riled a few of the Rookery boys and girls I think.
     
  15. King Dev

    King Dev Squad Player

    There's a way to celebrate though - I don't think he could have celebrated any more excitedly if he won the world cup, that's the issue. A knee slide and gun fingers at Watford fans only isn't respectful.
     
  16. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    The thing is you've not answered any of the points I’ve made in my post.

    You write well and all the points you’ve just made are totally valid and well-reasoned. Can’t disagree with anything. All good, a very positive spin.

    All I ask is people apply the same logic and set of rules to both sides of the debate, or it’s unfair. I’m afraid you and many others don’t. A win is down to Gracia, a loss isn’t.
    Hmmm.
     
  17. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    I'm not convinced he really owes us any respect anymore. He left 10 years ago and the club did very well out of the deal. Booing him comes across as over-sensitive and a little bit tinpot. I sort of get the no celebration thing during the same season or a year afterwards, but after that it has to be fair game to react how you'd normally react.
     
  18. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Sack Gracia & let's bring in someone better, if not he can stay.
     
    hjw likes this.
  19. GoingDown

    GoingDown "The Stability"

    I thought that the gun fingers celebration was a reference to his and Marlon King's old celebrations back in the day.
     
    King Dev likes this.
  20. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    It seems strange you are insisting on a direct answer to this point, when the question shouldn't be as simplistic as that.

    Look, if Gracia had a fully fit squad, and was consistently picking the wrong players, or forcing a formation that clearly was not working, or showing no signs of coaching defensively, then yes, he would deserve direct criticism.

    But you have to look at performances. You have to make your own mind up, and it's all perception, but this is what I believe the owner would be doing. If Gino was as one dimensional as to just look at results, then of course Gracia would be gone. No one could defend the appalling away results on just results alone. But you have to be a little smarter than that when you make your judgements.

    I've said this before, all a coach can do is set the team up to play in a certain way, with application and desire. Once players cross that white line it's down the them.

    So, we all win, lose and draw together, but there are varying degrees of responsibility. You have to use your own judgement. You seem to think Gracia is the one solely responsible, however, I do not think it's that clear-cut. The general shape, organisation and application/desire shown is good, but individual errors, lack of ability or loss of concentration is costing us. This is my perception of the situation, this is why I believe once we sign 3 or 4 player players in key positions, get our injured players back and have a good pre-season, then it would be a far better place to judge the head coach.

    So far, I believe he's done a good job. Had he been a total dud, then we would have been relegated, as that was the path we were on before he came.
     
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  21. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    ***** match really, just the same old story. A lot of possession, a lack of clear chances, a missed sitter or two and an error to cost us the match. Another gracia special.

    It's been a depressing end of season really. I can still vividly remember the hope and excitement of those first few games under silva. That's probably the closest we'll ever be to the big time. It was a tantalising glimpse of what it's like to have no fear of relegation and to only be looking to the top of the table. Of course all our dreams were shattered in a flash and we were back to being utter dross. But that was a wonderful period.

    A picture that sums up our season:

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    After watching MotD last night, us being last as usual and no mention of Watford at all in the post-match analysis. They didn't even mention the goal was offside, as it would have impacted on their eulogy over Carrick.

    But I would like to know, for sure, was that goal offside? Certainly Rashford was miles off when the original pass was played to Mata. But I thought once the ball was squared to him he would be flagged at that point. Is this the same type of thing when a shot comes in past a player standing in an offside position, only for the keeper to parry it back out and the offside player scores the rebound? This is always disallowed.

    I suppose once the pass is deemed onside to Mata, then it's the next phase of play, so Rashford being offside initially does not apply any more. However, the ball was passed forward to him, which would make him offside again. We had a goal like this disallowed at Swansea when Carrillo scored. Everyone agreed it was a marginal but correct decision at the time, so why is this one different?

    I give up with the offside rule. They should make it much clearer. If you're a top 6 club it's onside, for all other teams it's offside. There, clear as day now and at least we all know where we stand on this.
     
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  23. TripleH

    TripleH Academy Graduate

    At least we can show pictures of the manager in unflattering poses as that's what he should be judged on after all this is social media
     
    hornetboy1 likes this.
  24. WillisWasTheWorst

    WillisWasTheWorst Its making less grammar mistake's thats important

    I think signing two good quality strikers will take quite a lot of work in the transfer window, but that’s what is needed.
     
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  25. I Blame Pozzo

    I Blame Pozzo First Team

    Whether it was on or off is irrelevant to the fact that it was at OT and we aren't an elite team,therefore MU will always get the decision.
    Big teams,big players in any sport are always favoured over the also rans.
     
  26. oxhey67

    oxhey67 Squad Player

    I think Rashford is behind Mata so it's irrelevant whether the ball is passed forward.
    I may be wrong but that's how I understand it. (And I use the word understand very loosely when offside is being discussed these days!)
     
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  27. Relegation Certs

    Relegation Certs Squad Player

    Shall we judge him on the amount of defeats and lack of goals instead then?

    How was your match day experience yesterday at old trafford? How have your last dozen away trips been? Do you like paying hundreds of pounds and spending hours travelling to see defeat after defeat and no goals? Do you think our away record is acceptable?
     
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  28. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    You're missing the point! I don't believe Gracia is solely responsible for our poor away form. I'm just pointing out that the whole debate about his abilities is often flawed here because some people give him all the credit for our wins and no blame at all for our losses! That's double standards! Yesterday, following our 8th away game in a row under him where we failed to score, we had all the usual comments about the squad he inherited, the injuries, the good performances, the bad luck and from your good self even a comment about us not having any right to expect points at four of those eight matches. All perfectly valid comments, but I fear some use them as a smokescreen to avoid debating the actual issue, the fact under Gracia we've won 1 out of 9, and not scored on the road.
     
  29. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    You could give Pep 11 players made up of forum members. We would lose every game, but does that make Pep a bad manager? You can only be as good as the players you have.

    It's not all a smokescreen, these are valid reasons. You are just making it all too simple. Gracia, rubbish away form + rubbish current form = needs to be sacked. I'm a bit surprised you cannot see beyond that, but I know your mind was fixed from day one and needed to be persuaded along the way. From that starting point, you will never be persuaded.

    Personally, I believe he's done enough to stay......or rather, he's not done enough bad things to warrant the sack.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
    The Voice of Reason likes this.
  30. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    It was onside. Rashford was in an offside position when Carrick played his pass – but it’s not an offence to be in an offside position. Mata was in an onside position. Rashford was deemed not to be ‘involved in active play’ and I think that’s the right call looking at the list of things that make you active. You're active if you pick up a rebound from the post or the keeper but not if you just stand miles behind the line and wait to collect a pass from an onside team mate who has got through the opposition defensive line.

    And as Oxhey says, the ball can go forward so long as the recipient is behind the ball when the pass is made. No part of Rashford’s head, body or legs were ahead of the ball AND the second last defender when Mata made the pass. There’s no inconsistency with the Swansea decision.
     
  31. Malteser

    Malteser Squad Player

    Again you're missing the point! Bit like Gracia on the road!
     
  32. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    Played onside by Holebas, the pass for the goal was played to a player who was behind the player passing the ball. Good goal.
    At the match itself it looked a country mile offside, but watching MOTD last night it obviously wasn't, (and it was shown quite clearly in the replays).
     
  33. hornetboy1

    hornetboy1 First Team Captain

    I'm not missing the point. You want Gracia sacked because we've not scored any away goals and he didn't have a great CV on Wiki, and I would like him to be given a chance.

    .....or am I wrong about that?
     
  34. AndrewH63

    AndrewH63 Reservist

    I did go to West Ham away, but not the other two. Silva also moaned when Amrabat was shipped out - So on balance Gracia is no worse than the previous incumbent.
     
  35. Lloyd

    Lloyd Squad Player

    At least he had the decency to wait until he was an ex-Watford player before doing the 'hand behind the ears thing' to Watford fans after he scored - unlike Scummer Gray
     

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