Cryptocurrencies

Discussion in 'Yellow Pages' started by Cassetti's Beard, Jun 2, 2016.

  1. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Agree with both of you that it's commons sense. You should never invest with borrowed money however it's not for banks to dictate this. That's down to professional qualified investment advisers.

    I note that they won't stop people going into debt on their credit cards, or stop them using their debit cards to purchase crypto or infact prevent them topping up their paddy power accounts from their credit cards so it;s not the altruistic action they want us to believe.

    I can only think that Lloyds have recently dumped a load of crypto or that they want to get out of having to insure purchases should someone like coinbase go bust.
     
    BigRossLittleRoss likes this.
  2. I bought bitcoin on my credit card so that I could renew my Sportsmania subs. I used my cc as I didn't trust Coincorner! TBF NatWest contacted me to see if it was a genuine transaction...
     
    Diamond likes this.
  3. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Which is exactly what they should do for any transactions they think might be dodgy.

    Mind you the only times I've had payments stopped on my credit card are for perfectly valid purchases from Currys, John Lewis and on-line computer stores.
    When my card did suffer fraudulent transaction they completely missed it. 10 or so lots of Union fees for 10 different people in the space of 3 days. Can't believe that didn't ring any alarm bells.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  4. BigRossLittleRoss

    BigRossLittleRoss First Team

    Bring on the regulation. As soon as the crypto marketed is regulated in the way other securities are the quicker we move this technology into the mainstream.

    Although it may have a bearish effect on the market short term, mid to long term it will create a large bull market , because regulation will facilitate the influx of institutional money later this year.

    As a comparision, the dot.com bubble had a total marketcap of $29 tb before the bubble burst. The total market cap for cryptos has not even reached $1 tb
     
  5. reids

    reids First Team

    I fully understand lloyds decision here. It's not your money you're spending when you pay via credit card - it's theirs. Crypto is so volatile and definitely has the widespread appeal to think that it's a "no lose" investment. This will lead to people investing potentially beyond their means - leaving the bank to pick up the bill. I've had a friend contemplate taking out a loan to buy crypto (before I told him that was a terrible idea).
     
  6. UEA_Hornet

    UEA_Hornet First Team Captain

    A loan from the Bank of Reids?
     
  7. reids

    reids First Team

    I wish!
     
  8. Jumbolina

    Jumbolina First Team

    It’s not your money. They are lending it to you. If you wandered in to get a loan and you told them you were sticking it on a greyhound they would tell you to do one!
     
    Ghost of Barry Endean likes this.
  9. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    If you pay your cards off at the end of the month it is your money but I understand your reasoning.

    The issue I have with it is that they're arbitrarily deciding how their customers should spend their credit limit. If they don't trust them to spend and pay it back then don't give them the credit limit. They're stepping over the line imho. Regulation of Crypto is needed but in a fair even handed and across the board manner.

    What I object to most is that their announcement has manipulated the market.
     
    BigRossLittleRoss and wfcmoog like this.
  10. Diamond

    Diamond First Team

    How can crypto
    I don't think they're that intelligent to have done it on purpose. This is the bank that still spells my name wrong on my debit card despite having an account with them for 30+ years.
     
    hornmeister likes this.
  11. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    Fair point. My family had a long run in with them over an estate that wasn't handled correctly. Wouldn't touch them with a bargepole now and to be honest I don;t think any of our IFA clients use them either.
     
  12. Just had a look at a crypto exchange site. Just about every coin (certainly all the major ones) down between 40% and 60% over the last week. Beginning of the end?
     
  13. reids

    reids First Team

    Big dips (40%+) have happened before and will most certainly happen again. Sure it'll be fine. I'm holding strong anyway.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  14. Hornet4ever

    Hornet4ever WFC Forums Last Man Standing Winner 2018/2019

    Always interested in your posts, surely all this CC wont be worth much soon? All the vast speculation looks to have had its major bull run & cooling down that most of the amateur investors are all but shaken out now. CC is almost certainly a long term zero sum game + now with authorities/banks/governments condemning it, slowly losing its mass appeal on this particular technology that can't really ever properly be regulated. Who would really support that in the day to day real word economy other than criminals & tax dodgers?!

    You can look back & say you made money on the craze so surely its best to sell while you still can, take your perhaps somewhat diminished profit & run. Just hoping for big spikes again without fundamentals & saying 'sure it'll be just fine' is a little worrying language to me in terms of out & out investing? No offence meant in any way just interested in if your thoughts are beginning to shift at all, as in the main you have usually had an unwavering positive position on the subject of CC's?
     
  15. reids

    reids First Team

    It comes down to the technology, I'm largely invested in Ethereum which has the technology to completely change the world we live - akin to the internet. If I were invested in Bitcoin instead which is pretty much useless other than sending bitcoin to other users then I'd fully agree with you.
     
  16. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    Some bullish talk on crypto today at the US Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee. Bodes very well for the future indeed.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  17. reids

    reids First Team

    Yup, markets responded fantastically. Will probably take a good couple of months to reach the highs of the start of the year now all the weak hands that sold, but it 's good for crypto on a whole so i'm happy enough
     
    wfcmoog and hornmeister like this.
  18. hornmeister

    hornmeister Tired

    I went back in with a little extra punt yesterday gone up 20% since then:cool:
     
  19. Arakel

    Arakel First Team

    My jaw hit the desk when I heard an elected US politician talk about a 20 trillion market cap possibility by 2020. Top man!
     
    reids likes this.
  20. miked2006

    miked2006 Premiership Prediction League Proprietor

    Genuine question as I don't know. As far as I'm aware, blockchain is open-source, and so anyone can make a coin using the underlying technology.

    What's the barrier to entry for Etherium i.e. what's to stop another coin/ company/ government coming along and copying the idea? Why do they need to use Etherium?
     
  21. reids

    reids First Team

    Nothing at all really, but they'd need people to switch over from Ethereum and adopt their blockchain - which would be pretty tough considering how many people are now using the Ethereum network. Bitcoin has had 215,728 transactions in the last 24 hours - Ethereum has had 885,973!
     
  22. The undeniable truth

    The undeniable truth First Team Captain

    So the ReidsWFCForumChalobahrole coin has legs then ?
     
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  23. jw-

    jw- Reservist

    Block-chain is a technology or science like the internet, it isn't a piece of software so to speak. Anyone can implement the technology but can do so it a public or private way.

    The barrier to entry is implementing the technology in a way that attracts users because it has more desirable features. One such feature is transaction time which is in part a product of the number of users. As Ethereum is the biggest, users are less likely to move to a new platform where they have no currency and transactions take longer.

    Big tech companies that run cloud services will almost certainly be working on block chain based technology. I expect this to go mainstream before something peer-to-peer does like Ethereum.
     
    reids likes this.
  24. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    This tweet from the nerdy genius behind Ethereum might persuade you Clive.

    "How many unbanked people have we banked?
    How much censorship-resistant commerce for the common people have we enabled?
    How many dapps have we created that have substantial usage? Low added value per user for using a blockchain is fine, but then you have to make up for it in volume.
    How much value is stored in smart contracts that actually do anything interesting?
    How many Venezuelans have actually been protected by us from hyperinflation?
    How much actual usage of micropayment channels is there actually in reality?” "



    Bitcoin was born out of a desire to take financial control away from government and central banks. It was a direct response to the collapse of banking in 2008 and the fallout which saw bankers protected with public money, whilst ordinary people lost jobs and homes.

    If you read any of the crypto forums out there, you will find plenty of brash latecomers who are seeking to use crypto to get rich quick, but the hard core, the people who actually understand the tech and who have been in it from the start believe it's part of a new movement to decentralise wealth and reduce the control of the Federal Reserve and its like globally.

    You need to do a bit of research comrade.
     
  25. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    It's already back up.

    Reids was right.
     
  26. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Anybody else getting into Bitcoin Private?

    Unlike other Bitcoin forks, this has a serious development team behind it and there appears widespread opinion that the coin could be useful. With all the regulation and greater central government involvement specified above, 2018 would appear to be the year of privacy coins, rather than those which are only psuedoanonymous.

    The kicker for BTCP is that you can get 1:1, not only with Bitcoin but also with ZCL. ZCL is currently trading on Bittrex at about £75. The previous forks of bitcoin, notably Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin Gold, trade at £924 and 84.44 respectively. Bear in mind that Bitcoin Gold serves no visible function and still manages to trade for £10 more than the current price of ZCL.

    My view, for my own money, is that I can't see BTCP being worth less than Bitcoin Gold. In fact, I can see it being worth considerably more than Bitcoin Cash.

    The snapshot for the fork (this means they take a virtual screen print of the block chain and then use that to allocate the new coin) will take place on 28th February, so I anticipate ZCL will go on a bull run between now and then, assuming there are no other major FUDs.

    Bittrex have not yet confirmed that they are supporting Bitcoin Private, however they have supported other forks, so I would be surprised if they didn't. In any case, the safest way is to hold the ZCL in the dedicated, proprietory wallet until after the snapshot.

    ZCL might tank hard after that, it might not, but as long as BTCP trades for more than I paid for ZCL, I win.

    Not investment advice, do your own research.
     
  27. reids

    reids First Team

    Still yet to reach the heights we saw in early January but getting there. As I also said above, feel it'll take another couple of months to reach back to where we were then, but it's all about long-term.
     
  28. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Well, my analysis is that there was a lot of noise towards the end of 2017, in mainstream media about Bitcoin and crypto. There was also huge marketing from XRP (Ripple) and TRX (TRON) which brought a flood of new, speculative, fair weather investors to the market and we saw unreasonable growth.

    Those people came and many got burned. They all, also became overnight experts and predicted that this was the death knell of crypto and bitcoin (https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoinobituaries/)

    They have largely gone now, scared off by what to anyone experienced (At 8 months in Crypto, I'm almost a veteran) is just the standard FUD we see every month. China has banned crypto about 40 times now and guess what - they still haven't banned crypto.

    The market has recovered above the super lows we saw when we had a perfect storm of FUD - China, US banks banning crypto purchase, Tether and I forget what else (Korean exchange hacked maybe?). We've had some FUD since then but the market is more resilient because the weak hands have dropped their bags at 60% losses and run screaming to their IFA to get them back into bonds and stocks.

    I have seen my portfolio rise and fall enough times now. It's quite exhausting, in a way, but I have learned a lot from each and every dip. I'm still no expert, but last week, for example, I sold everything into BTC and sold at about $6,700 and then, bought back later at $5,500.

    I didn't sell at the top and nor did I rebuy at the bottom, but I made a move and benefitted, unlike my first crash, where I just panicked and sat holding as my Alts bled into about 70% losses. They did eventually rebound, for the most part, but I could've sold them and bought back lower, increasing my holdings, which I tried to do this time.

    In any case, I learn every week and every day. I have a long way to go and a lot to learn, but I'm having fun and meeting some good people along the way.
     
  29. reids

    reids First Team

    That's the perfect attitude to take, so many people are looking at crypto as a "get rich quick" type thing. Whilst it is entirely possible that you could get lucky and that happen, it's highly unlikely. You can, however, increase those chances quite dramatically by reading up on the technology, the markets etc and learning as much as you can. When I first deemed that I'd "missed out on BTC" I still kept an interest in crypto despite not actually owning any. Kept my ear close to the ground and when I found out about Eth decided that was perfect for me to get involved. It's staggering how much people are willing to fork over without knowing the slightest thing about crypto. Told a close mate of mine about Eth at his birthday last year, he said it sounded cool and to let me know how it went. Last month when I saw him for his birthday he wanted me to invest £15k into crypto for him. I made him a safe portfolio (40% Eth, 20% NEO, 15% BTC, 15% XMR, 5% REQ, 5% LISK) and taught him how to use the exchanges so he could do it all himself. He's now completely scrapped my portfolio and has dived into investing into some ridiculous coins - but i've done all I can. No doubt he'll get his fingers burnt (well, more so than he has already as this was mid Jan!).

    I'm a bit upset I didn't do any trading during the dip, every time I thought about it, I came to the conclusion it had reached the bottom. Within hours it had then fallen again, repeat the whole process over. On the plus side I didn't lose any of my stack so can't really be too miffed, that's just being greedy!
     
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  30. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    My biggest regret was selling NEO at 30 quid. I believed in NEO like you in Eth and had bought in for 4-6 quid.

    My mistake was thinking it would sink again after it rose quickly to 30 and I could buy more, but it rose inexorably to over 60 quid and I missed the boat.

    I hope to free up some capital over the next month and then I'll wait for the next crash and buy back in. In the meantime I'm wating for VEN to soar
     
  31. reids

    reids First Team

    I was the opposite - I had the chance to buy in at 4-6 quid and wrote it off, then bought in at around £30 I think (maybe a bit higher, can't remember!). I don't have any VEN but I'm hoping REQ is the next one to rocket. I bought £50 worth at about 45p each during the first big dip in Jan. Then last week I sold all my wagerr (they missed 2 deadlines to supposedly launch and the owners have been a bit dodgy so decided to get out, cashed out for 0.8 eth - I'd bought in for 0.5 over the summer so I'll take that) so dumped all my money from that into REQ as well at around 19-20p each. If it can go back up to the previous peak of 80p that it reached in January, then I'll be a very happy chap.
     
    wfcmoog likes this.
  32. reids

    reids First Team

    The most recent thing i've learnt is that the media want crypto to fail. I've been watching the news really closely during the January dip - the overwhelming amount of mainstream news articles about crypto are all negative. The day after the US talks the other day I decided to check what the BBC had reported about it. The answer = absolutely nothing, instead an article about how BTC had gone below $6000 that was published the same day as the talks.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology

    3 crypto headlines sitting there now:

    - Bitcoin gobbling Iceland energy supplies
    - Criminals hide 'billions' in crypto-cash
    - Digital cash hack hits government websites

    The only "positive" headlines they run regarding crypto are in relation to the price "BTC reaches $19k" with comments open that are full of people that have no idea what they're talking about comparing it to tulips and the dotcom bubble etc.

    Pisses me off no end, although isn't really surprising.
     
  33. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    Surely the Iceland one is obvious fake news? Bitcoin mining in Iceland is powered by geothermal generators which are presumably local to the mining operation to keep the whole enterprise self contained, sustainable and cheap.

    That's the whole point of doing large scale mining in Iceland
     
  34. reids

    reids First Team

    The criminals article is a joke as well, the article reads "Mr Wainwright said that Europol, the European Union Agency for Law Enforcement Cooperation, estimates that about 3-4% of the £100bn in illicit proceeds in Europe are laundered through cryptocurrencies." but yeah let's focus the article around 3-4% of the money rather than the 96% of the money that's laundered through fiat. Christ.
     
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  35. wfcmoog

    wfcmoog Tinpot

    I think it just reflects the general perception of crypto, as reflected in this very thread.

    The vast majority of people still probably associate it with Silk Road, speculative bubbles and tech they don't understand.

    Whilst people are happy to throw a few hundred quid at it in the hope that they do a Winklevoss, it's far safer to stand outside and throw stones.

    Of course they could all be 100% correct and I'm completely open minded about the fact that the whole bubble could burst, after all, not everyone who says it will fail is a total idiot (though Jordan Belfort is) but I'm quite comfortable with the risks I'm taking and the upside potential.
     
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