Said after Arsenal and West Brom that Gray is the better to starter because he tires defenders out. No surprise to me we lost today starting Deeney. Still need the skipper imo but need him on at the end when he can cause maximum damage
I didn’t see the game, but the sense I get is that we simply didn’t know how to play a team that sets up so defensively. As a club, this would be entirely new territory for us, except maybe when we play lower league teams in the cup competitions (and we know how that has turned out in the league cup). We should probably take it as a compliment that an established premier league team parked the bus against little Watford. What needs to happen now, is that the manager prepares for this type of scenario for future games, and I am confident he will. Also need to be more alert for set pieces. Dust ourselves down and get on with the task ahead.
Could've done with either Okaka or Zarate on the bench today instead of three defenders. It was a game that didn't really suit either Deeney or Gray - big defenders who can't be bullied and no space in behind. Zarate in particular would've been useful, great set pieces and able to find a yard of space and shoot from outside the box. Still, at least we've got that free spot in our squad list.
Unfortunately that game was exactly how I worried it might end up. Every year Stoke drag us into a dog fight, every year they're the worst opposition i see at Watford and every year they find a way to beat us. If that's how they play every week then it's only a matter of time before Hughes rightfully gets the sack. Not sure if it was just me being impatient or not, but I'm convinced they started time wasting about 20 minutes in. We played into their hands today especially in the 1st half. Our tempo was too slow and we played everything infront of them. Capoue playing in the CAM role was pointless. Most of the time he just dropped into midfield, collected the ball, stopped the ball dead and then played if backwards or sideways. If Pereyra is still injured I think Hughes should get a chance in the more advanced role against Everton. We were awful today there's no defending our performance. Conceding another goal after leaving a man free at the edge of the box is a disgrace. The sooner I forget about that game the better. Stoke and West Brom are the 2 teams I hate playing the most because everything about the way they set up is just awful. Hopefully a better performance next week.
Corners. Have a man on the edge of the box. Did we not learn from the Chelsea game? That allowed Stoke a goal and then for them to defend in numbers. Really frustrating. Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
There is certainly a 'Stoke' way of doing things. I watched the way they defended corners. Sticking #10 and #18 next to each other on the near post meant nothing was getting past them. They were definitely vertically advantaged, and they defended well by putting the 'big lumps' into the box when we were coming forward. No complaints there. What I do complain about is the fact that they spent more than 70 minutes timewasting. I was actually watching an interview with Brian Clough from Yorkshire Television where he laments teams going 1-0 up and shutting up shop. Why did Butland need to put everything into touch or hoof everything to our defence 20 minutes into the game? Why did they need to time-waste for more than an hour? I can take losing, for sure, but the complete anti-football that was on display was a discredit to the game and an insult to the travelling fans. I also saw the Deeney/Allen thing; one of the Stoke players had gone down in the box, and seemed to be trying to figure out whether he had hurt his leg or his foot. Butland (who himself had been indulging in time-wasting) put the ball out while the Stoke player (can't remember which one) lay on the floor (before miraculously leaping up). Rather than give the ball back to the keeper, Troy decided to play on, and Joe Allen took exception to this and kicked off at Troy. I don't condone Troy gouging Allen's face, but tensions were high, I suppose. But what really riles me is the Stoke Twitter account decided to condemn us as unsporting for not giving the ball back, which is ******* rich coming from them. That angers me more than anything else. Clough would be raging at them.
God I hate playing Stoke. Always the same kind of game and as soon as they got the goal you had a feeling it might be enough. I actually thought we played ok in the second half but I have never seen a team come to us in this league and pretty much have no interest in getting forward a for the whole of the second half. For the last 20 mins they played that lump up front at left back! On the subject of him, has there ever been a worse looking player than him? On the Deeney/Gray subject, what on earth has happened to Okaka? Even if he can’t last a whole game he must be better option than the other two. As it stands I would play Gray ahead of Deeney as at least he provides movement and effort. I’m not sure what Troy gave us today but effort and movement were not on show.
What I couldn't figure out today is why we persevered with 4 at the back for the whole match. Kabasele literally had no one to mark (until Berahino came on with 10 minutes left) and was constantly free to receive the ball as a result. Now a top team with a great passer at the back would consider than a tactical benefit. For us it was a luxury we couldn't afford. Having 4 across the back cost us a man in the midfield instead. Carrillo was dead on his feet before the hour mark yet somehow lasted another 15 minutes before being subbed. He couldn't even run in his last 10 minutes on the pitch and looked like a boxer reeling on the ropes after taking a punch square to the jaw. All wobbly legs. How many times was Deeney offside? Against that static deep Stoke defence once is unfortunate and anything more is ridiculous. He should be in the clear on the Joe Allen nonsense though as he was booked at the time. It didn't look like Capoue's sort of game and Cleverley was much too wasteful. Doucoure was basically the only Watford player seriously trying to make things happen. I lost count of the number of times after their goal where no one ahead of him was moving at all.
How did I pick this as the game to go to with my boy?? Anyhow, thought we were naive in how we took on this attack VS defence drill that Stoke set up for us... Kept going down the right and as has been said Kiko and Carrillo kept stopping and waiting for each other to overlap. Only bright spell at the start of the second half with a few balls played behind their full backs. Without Pereyra we needed low, hard balls across the box not loads of hopeful high crosses. Would like to see Hughes get a shot soon. Need to find a way to play at home, think we'll be fine away from home with pace up top.
We need to sign this guy in January. He is probably rubbish playing in the Indonesian league but look at that pace!!!
Ok, this time it appears Silva has directly blamed Cleverley for not marking, but wasn't it Cleverley that was marking Mertesacker a couple of weeks ago? Maybe we should use defenders instead of midfielders.......just a thought. But I look at Stoke's defence, and they are even more leaky than ours, but they have Shawcross, Wimmer and Zouma to call on. I'd take any one of those, if not all three. This is the type of player I hope we are able to bring to the club in January. They are not exceptional, or out of our reach, but would improve our defence no end.
Assume you realise the clip has been sped up, if you look at the other players running etc. Not least the loop on the gol gol gol gol gol etc
But a defender wouldn’t cover the edge of the box where feltcher scored from. Their defence consisted of six players lined up across the six yard box, I don’t think their lumbers would improve our squad. They work well for Stoke but not necessarily us. The goal was conceded by the way were set up. As a defensive unit Holebas, Femenia, Britos and Kabasele were untroubled. The only player they have who would consider is Shakiri.
Mark Hughes saying that Deeney not giving the ball back wasn't in the spirit of the game. Do you know what also wasn't in the spirit of the game Mark? Time wasting at 0-0, pretending to be injured, walking to the other side of the pitch when you know you're about to be substituted, kicking the ball away when Watford have a set piece, constantly having your staff in the officials ear all game. Hughes and Stoke deserve each other. Match made in hell.
It's a pretty rubbish thought though. Why would you post a defender to the D outside the box when defending a corner? It shouldn't be beyond Cleverley's ability to put Fletcher off of making a shot. Cleverley v Mertesacker was a mismatch but even then that was Kabasele (I think) losing his man rather than Cleverley being assigned to him.
I was joking about Cleverley, but there are clear issues with our defence and I think the only way to resolve it is from a new addition or two. For me relying on players like Britos, Kabasele, Mapps for an extended length of time is beginning to harm us.
Zouma was the best player on the pitch. Unfortunately he'll go back to Chelsea next season to replace Cahill
It’s sped up? I’d of never guessed that. Thanks for pointing it out Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If I was manager before any game against WBA or Stoke I’d say to the opposing manager that my team were not going to give the ball back after any injuries. Just so things were clear and there would be no need for whining and fisticuffs. I hate the concept in general to be honest. Just abandon it. Only give ball back if they kick it out for an opposing team player.
Zouma and Diouf must've kicked and barged Richarlison multiple times and I counted at least 7 fouls by Zouma but still no yellow card from Michael Oliver who'd given 43 YCs so far before this match. Capoue wants a new contract? It's still warm weather yet he plays like that? Just fannies about. No chance, old son. The corner they scored from should have never been "won" if we'd defended the free kick Deeney gave away properly. As the big guys of Stoke went forward and lined up, Zouma who'd been marking Richarlison, strolled forward to line up alone way out wide. Richarlison ignores him and tracks over to stand next to Troy way over on the left. Zouma was completely unmarked!! The cross goes long to him and his cross/shot pings off Capoue for the fateful corner. FFS! , If one of the FOUR blokes (Deeney. Capoue, Ricky and TC) we had marking each other at the front post with no Stoke players anywhere near them had covered Zouma, situation nullified. Time and time again in the first half, as Capoue wouldn't track back (hey thats familiar) Holebas was struggling with Zouma, Shaquiri or Diouf. Same thing happened oddly when Capoue went off in the second half. Hughes is lightweight and not up to it. Proved that in the Carabao Cup. FFS. And Carillo was getting bawled out repeatedly by Silva in the first half for not following instructions/traacking back or just being poor. The lack of an Okaka when the Stoke team were so tall, robust and played for set pieces and breakaways was idiotic. I'd have brought on Janmaat, not Hughes, as Daryl is faster, has a cross and shot in him and is a better defender. But hey, can we learn from this, eh? Please? And can Richarlison learn to look for an opponent instead of shooting himself all the chuffing time? He could've squared to Carillo instead of blasting the side netting. Does it a all too often.
